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The Matthew Minor Foundation

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Screentime Action Network - Online Harms Workgroup

Hillary Wilkinson: (00:00)

Thank you for joining us. I'm really glad you tuned in today. Today's topic is critical in potentially lifesaving. That being said, I want you all to be aware that today's episode talks about deadly and dangerous social media challenges, as well as accidental death. If you have smaller ears around you, it may be an episode you want to save until later, or perhaps listen with earbuds. 

—-Intro—-------

The beginning of the school year seems to bring with it an upswing in social media challenges, and some of 'em seem to be silly pranks and just trying to get likes and followers and others can have more serious consequences. And the latter is why it's important that we open conversation with our kids about social media challenges.

Hillary Wilkinson: (01:13)

Uh, when these challenges get completed without incident, they get posted online and they get a lot of attention. And those that cannot post their outcomes due to the challenge not going as planned need equal airtime. And that's why we're talking today. Often the full impact of the devastation, of what happens, gets overlooked. My guests today are Todd and Mia Minor, parents who have become a powerful force of awareness building and education on online challenges. The Minor's lives changed forever when Matthew, their 12-year-old son, died accidentally through participation in a social media challenge known as the Choking Challenge. They have a background of service and former military duty and have chosen to honor Matthew's life through educating others and creating the Matthew E. Minor Awareness Foundation and Scholarship Fund. Todd and Mia, thank you so much for being here today. I really wanna honor Matthew's story and amplify your education efforts. But, um, before we start, let me just acknowledge that we're, we're currently recording in June, and a lot has happened in the past several days with the surgeon general releasing a statement in the New York Times, calling for the need of a surgeon general warning on all social media platforms. This is analogous to the label that we see on tobacco products. And how, how does this resonate with you guys?

Mia Minor: (03:11)

I think it's a, a good start, to provide an awareness of the content that is advertised, um, or being viewed. Uh, social media is one of many concerns within the worldwide web. Um, and being that it is the most popular amongst the adolescent and teenagers today, uh, and, its best to add measures that will be safe, uh, and go safeguard our children, add measures, uh, such as the, um, the warning labels for social media is, is a good start.

Todd Minor: (03:56)

Yeah. And, uh, I, I mean, uh, I, as I kind of read the op-ed article, I thought that, um, you know, when I was thinking about this, 'cause we've, we've actually talked about this before, you know, planes and cars and everything else has regulations and warning labels. And, and even the Surgeon General had mentioned as far as tobacco having, uh, warning labels, which actually, over time has, has saved lives and actually decreased the use of cigarettes over, over, over the years. So I think, uh, I think it's a great tool to bring awareness. It's just like, uh, the, uh, warning labels that they have for video games and, and movies and things like that, so the parents can make a more informed decision before they let your, their children take a look at everything. And I think also, it's, it's just, it's just doing what we do for everything else here in America. Everything else, you know, you got the FDA and other regulating bodies, you know, social media should, should go, should be regulated just like everything else here in America.

Hillary Wilkinson: (05:06)

Yeah. Yeah. Um, I, I agree, so guys, let's start with your family. You have two sons. Your oldest TJ attends college in New York City. Yes. And Matthew, your younger son, is why we're here today. And can you tell us about Matthew, what kind of child he was?

Mia Minor: (05:28)

Matthew was fun loving. Uh, he was a happy child, loved sports, uh, loved being outside. He liked going to church and going to, he liked to pray,  children's church. And, uh, one of the things he loved to do, uh, for family gatherings, he liked to pray, uh, and he would did the, the prayer off. And, uh, and everybody loves his prayer. 'cause, you know, sometimes he'll be long-winded , and then sometimes he'd be short and sweet. Yeah. Um, but then, you know, he was very, uh, protective over those who was his friends.

Todd Minor: (06:09)

One thing I remember about Matthew is just that he, uh, he had a, uh, he just had a award-winning smile and personality. I mean, he just like lit up the room. I think, uh, you know, as, as we've been going around and speaking and just talking with other families and parents and stuff, uh, everybody says that, “wow, what a smile!” I mean, and it was, it was just like, just like you see in that picture. That's how he was, uh, that was his personality. He, and, and, uh, another thing I remember is when I have bad days at work and stuff like that, uh, you know, you know, you just have some of those days like that he'd come up and I'm sitting there looking at numbers, you know, whether it's the family numbers or something for work or whatever.

Todd Minor: (06:55)

And he, he put his arm around me and said, “Dad, dad, you know, I know you're working hard, but you know it's gonna be okay.” And I was like, I was just like, man, this, this young man is wise above, uh, you know, beyond his years. And, he took up for those that couldn't defend themselves, even if they were physically bullied at school. He stood up for 'em. And, and we, you know, the, uh, teachers would call and tell us what happened and everything, but they, but most of the time, Matthew didn't get in trouble because the other kids shouldn't have been trying to pick on the other kid that Matthew was trying to protect. Um, well, Matthew, yeah. I mean,

Hillary Wilkinson: (07:36)

I was gonna say that's a testament to you guys as well. You know, it's a testament to how you, you live your life and show up for your community. Yeah.

Todd Minor: (07:45)

Thank you so much. And, and, you know, he, uh, he was, uh, I share this all the time, but he was considered the ambassador of, uh, uh, AKI Academy here in, uh, Maryland, where we, where he went to school. He took all the kids around to show 'em where the lockers, where their new lockers were gonna be, especially the new kids. And he'd show 'em where all the, where their teachers, uh, where homeroom and everything was, and stuff like that for his short time here on Earth, he made such a huge impact, you know?

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:05)

I get that, I get that ambassador title. He sounds like he had great leadership, you know?

Todd Minor: (09:12)

Yes, yes. Very charismatic. Very,

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:15)

Yeah. Yeah. So, um, swinging it around to the social media challenges, it's kind of interesting because they got their start in this non-threatening way. Like, the first one I was aware of was the ice bucket challenge back in, I think it was like 2014 for funding ALS research. And were you guys even aware of social media challenges prior to Matthew's accident?

Todd Minor: (09:42)

No, ma'am. No. I think, I think I kind of remember seeing, uh, the ice Bucket challenge on, maybe it was Facebook. Uh, you know, I think I saw it every so often. And then, uh, then they had another game that was going around. There wasn't a lot of video of, well, sometimes it was, but here in DC they had people that were going around actually knocking people out, like punching 'em and knocking 'em out and, you know, like, uh, physical, like, punch knockout people waiting at, uh, bus stops and stuff like that.

Todd Minor: (10:32)

Uh, but, but they reported that on the news. And so then whenever we were out on the metro or whatever, I always kind of kept myself, uh, a little more vigilant. If, if I saw somebody kind of coming up kind of kind of weird, like, like maybe they were gonna haul off and kind of hit us. But yeah, I think those were the only two things, but it, but it rose so high to the level that it was on the news, and, and that's how we, and, and I, I think Mia had remembered about a Momo challenge. But again, that was on the news.

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:03)

I remember that one too.

Todd Minor: (11:04)

Yeah. We didn't, we didn't see it on know of it on Facebook or anywhere else, so, you know.

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:10)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But even just, when you're talking about being around in town, being just vigilant, you're, I mean, it speaks, it speaks to your level of awareness of what's going on around you. And I think that is important for everyone to recognize that despite how vigilant you can be in your physical environment, the online environment is still right there as well. So,

Todd Minor: (11:44)

Yeah. I mean, it's, uh, I mean, you've, you, you kind of hit on something that I, I, I don't share all the time. Sometimes it comes up that I was, that I'm a IT professional, which, you know, I'm, you know, I have a master's in IT and I worked in IT for many years. That's why we had, you know, time limits and, you know, different things in place. You know, what we thought was protections. But also, you know, for my government job, I'm, uh, I'm trained in, uh, actual security, you know, physical security, door locks, cameras, you know, keep, you know, keeping people safe, uh, you know, knowing how to respond if somebody gets stuck in elevators and, you know, all those things that would happen in, in a office building or any type of facility.  So security, like you said, that was kind of the bedrock, you know, coupled with my military, uh, experience and training, you know, coupled with that, we were always vigilant and, you know, at least we, you know, we thought we were, you know.

Hillary Wilkinson: (12:50)

Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. So we have to take a short break, but when we come back, we're gonna talk more about Matthew and how he continues to be an ambassador, and how his 12 short years have really left lasting impact. 

—Ad Break: Healthy Screen Habits Workshops—-

Hillary Wilkinson: (14:51)

My guests today are Todd and Mia Minor, who've been a fixture on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC and Annapolis, Maryland, advocating for online child legislation at state and federal levels. 

They were featured in the ABC News Live, special Generation swipe, and have done nearly 30 national and international interviews and news pieces. I'm really grateful you guys are here today. And you did everything right. You had rules about the internet. You are involved and supportive, you have a knowledge background that supersedes most on internet connectivity. And still the unthinkable happened under your roof, in your home. I, I hate to ask you to do this one more time, but could you walk us through the evening of March 7th, 2019?

Todd Minor: (16:33)

Hmm. Okay. I'll, I'll, I'll do it Mia is, uh, you know, it's, it, it's emotional when we share. Um, in 2019, uh, after having dinner, we, we had a nice evening, day, everything with Matthew. Mia fixed dinner. We ate dinner. Um, after we got done, Matthew asked if he could go upstairs for an hour of internet. And, uh, uh, right before that time, before we said yes, uh, Mia went and looked at his grades. 'cause, 'cause we base, uh, their internet access based on, you know, how they're doing in school. And Mia checked that, and everything looked good. So we said, “Okay, well, you can go up for an hour.” And, uh, you know, I mean, we didn't, you know, one hour we didn't, we thought what could happen. Right after we finished dinner, TJ went to go, um, work out, actually, I think it was before we finished dinner.

Todd Minor: (17:33)

So, he took his food to go with, you know, ate it on the way. And so, uh, about 40 minutes later, after he got done lifting weights and stuff, he comes back home and, uh, he goes upstairs and, and he says, uh, “Come upstairs, run, run upstairs quick! There's something wrong with Matthew!” And we're like, what? I mean, it, it, I mean, it just didn't even sound right. So, you know, we're trying to figure out what's going on. Uh, we thought maybe, maybe he had a cold or he just wasn't feeling well or something. So we rush upstairs just to see what's going on. And, but from the tone of TJ's voice, we knew it was something, you know, you know, it was more serious at least. So we go upstairs and, and Matthew had something around his neck, and we were trying to figure that out.

Todd Minor: (18:24)

But in the same boat, we were like, Hey, we're gonna, you know, let's, you know, let's, because he was, he was up. So we said, we'll, just lay him down. We got that from around his neck. And, uh, I was looking at him, I was doing some assessments 'cause I was trained in the military and CPR. And so I'm looking at him, I put my ear to his, uh, uh, mouth and everything. I thought I was still hearing a little bit of breathing. And I said, okay. I said, I'm gonna start CPR. I said, Mia, “Call, uh, 9 1 1!”  Yeah. And, and, and Mia was on the phone with nine one one. I I started compressions and everything. I, you know, during that whole time, I think we both were asking ourselves, you know, you know, “God, why, why is this happening to us?”

Todd Minor: (19:10)

Why, uh, you know, what is it? What first, what is happening? Why is it happening? How did it happen? You know, what, you know. So all these things are racing through your head. And then also, the other thing is, is “Don't take my child. Don't, you know, don't take my child. You know, take, take me in in instead.” You know? And so, um, so we go through all, you know, everything we could to try to, uh, resuscitate 'em, you know, keep 'em alive. So we thought and everything. And, uh, then, uh, ambulance, the emergency, uh, personnel came and got Matthew. And we followed behind I think Mia you wrote in the, uh, ambulance. And I, um, I followed behind in one, one of the family vehicles. And so we get to the hospital, uh, you know, we talked to Minis…, the, you know, they had ministerial staff that was there, 

Todd Minor: (20:02)

And then, um, and said some prayers, which was good. 'cause we, we do pray. And, uh, but then the detective comes in, um, and talks with us and, uh, asks, you know, those, the questions, “Was Matthew upset? Was he sad?” You know, those kind of things. Did he had, you know, was he upset about something at school? And not that we knew of? And then, uh, it was, it was really good that we actually, we have a security system that has kind of a family cam. So we were able to share that with the detective and show him kind of what, that we had dinner. Yeah. That we, that we had dinner. Matthew went upstairs and we were sitting downstairs the whole time. And he could see on the video us running upstairs.

Todd Minor: (20:52)

He could hear TJ yell down. And, and then we went upstairs and everything. So, so that took us from, you know, any foul play, you know, anything that any of us did kind of situation. But then after that, uh, I think later on, he, uh, during that same time, he talked to us, he asked if he could go, well, TJ stayed here at the house. He didn't go to the hospital with us. And he asked if he could go back to the house. And did we give permission for him to talk to TJ 'cause he was still underage at that time. And so we said, “Yes, sir, you can talk with him.” And I think he, I think he took my phone and looked at that and stuff. But he came back and looked at, uh, Matthew's devices while we were still at the hospital.

Todd Minor: (21:40)

So, um, uh, around 2:30, I think it was about 2:30 that morning, uh, they, uh, told us that Matthew had unfortunately passed away. And I gotta tell you, I mean, we were sitting there just trying to figure out what, yeah, it was just, you know, we were like, how could this happen? What, what, what caused this? What, you know, I mean, we, we just, we were just totally unaware, to be honest. And, uh, the detective came back and said, he looked at the devices and we said, well, you know, what was he doing and stuff.

Todd Minor: (22:34)

And he said, well, I saw you open, had YouTube open. And I saw that he had, uh, opened TikTok. And I said, well, you know, okay, what, what's up with TikTok? I said, I don't, I don't really know anything about TikTok. Yeah. I mean, I knew it was a social media app, but, Mm-Hmm. , I didn't know he had a, we didn't know he had an account or had access to it. 'cause we didn't give it to him. We didn't open an account on his behalf. So, um, but he said, yeah, they have have all these, uh, things that come up and, and you can just, and he said, you know, you, you'll, you'll just get lost in scrolling. You'll just scroll, scroll, scroll, and that kind of thing. But then he said, well, but there is something that's, uh, that he had heard that was going around called the Blackout challenge, or Choking Challenge, or Knockout challenge, you know, where they're knocking, knocking themselves out, and that kind of stuff.

Todd Minor: (23:24)

It, I guess they keep changing the names and stuff. And we said, what's that? And so, so we, we, that was our first introduction Knockout challenge, Choking Challenge. And then when they told us Matthew passed, of course, that, you know, that was really rough because that, you know, every, everything, it seems like it's moving in slow motion. Oh, sure. It's kind of hard, you know. And then the hallway where we had to go to unfortunately identify him, we're like, wow, he was just in our house. You mean to tell me, I gotta identify my child that just came from my house, and we've been there the whole time. But it, you know, I guess it's, uh, something legally we had to do. And so when we got in there, I mean, he just looked like he was sleeping. I mean, he didn't, I think that's the thing that I, I can, I don't think he, any of us can, either one of us can ever take away out of our mind is, I mean, he just looked like he was sleeping.

Todd Minor: (24:20)

Fast forward a little bit to, we're making final arrangements for Matthew. And then we were, uh, we were getting, uh, I think we decided to do a tribute.

Todd Minor: (25:15)

And then also the funeral, uh, we did the tribute for the, those that were Matthew's age and younger that Matthew knew because they, uh, you know, the school system and kind of the PTA. They said that they thought it would be better for us to have a tribute and we'll have the funeral separate for the adults. And so we, so we had the tribute and, uh, you know, it was led by our pastors and everything. But during, uh, during which the pastors asked if the kids knew about these challenges and, uh, or said, Hey, you're probably participating in these challenges, you know, of these challenges. And the, and you could see the young people shaking their heads. They, they were like, yeah. And so that was part of the tribute.

Todd Minor: (26:08)

But later on I went to talk to some of the kids. 'cause I was trying to find out more. 'cause that's like, what is this Blackout Challenge, Choking Challenge. 'cause I just never heard of it. And you could see the kids looking around just, you know, trying to make sure nobody was looking at 'em. They felt like maybe they were telling on others. 'cause they, uh, I think some of 'em connected while the other ones did the challenge. I think it was that, that type of thing. So it's kind of, they were, uh, online and some people would do the challenge and the other people would, uh, other young people would connect and, and like witness it or participate. 

Todd Minor: (26:58)

And so you could see they didn't, they, they didn't want to be considered snitches or telling on each other. Sure. So that's when, at least in my mind, I was like, man, this is, this is bigger than we thought. At first. We thought it was an isolated incident. Or maybe just Matthew and maybe one or two other friends. But I mean, pretty much his whole class, I mean, really the whole school was there at the tribute. So I was like, if the all his school is affected, how many other kids are affected that aren't here, or that we're not able to see or have access to. Yeah. So, uh, so after the tribute, um, community members or pastors and, you know, even visiting pastors and reverends from other churches and stuff like that, they were like, you guys should do something about this. And we were like, us? I mean, we just lost our son. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (27:52)

I was gonna say, yeah.

Todd Minor: (27:52)

Why, why is that our, uh, you, why is that in, in our arena to do? But we also had a lot of donations and financial donations. And we used, uh, we used that, uh, those love offerings and donations to, uh, start the Matthew E. Minor Awareness Foundation. So we, we did heed and listened. You know, we, we took everything in and, and we didn't see anywhere in our community, local community that, where somebody was, uh, bringing awareness to social media challenges. So, so we, you know, we took that upon ourselves to honor Matthew. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (29:19)

Well, you certainly have, you certainly have your guys' reach has been very far all the way across the country. Wow. Yeah. No, and I think it speaks to the spirit of Matthew that your reach has been that far. You know? I really do. I really do.

Todd Minor: (30:24)

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. We, I think with everything we're doing, we, um, every time we go to speak or, uh, things that we differ that we do, everybody may not see it, but most of the time we kind of touch, touch, uh, uh, we have a, a, a pin, a button on our shirt, usually with Matthew. Or I'll just touch here somewhere on the, on our, one of our foundation shirts. Just like, you know, it's for you, Matthew, for you just to, you know, 'cause 'cause that's the driving force. And, and we just don't want this to happen to other families and parents to go through.

Hillary Wilkinson: (31:48)

You talked about, um, spending time with Matthew's classmates and other kids who definitely, you, you were kind of reading their body language and they, they definitely knew about these, this choking challenge. And when you have seen other videos like that, does it look dangerous? Like, I mean, would kids be able to look at this and see that this is a very dangerous thing?

Todd Minor: (32:17)

I've actually gone on and just looked, 'cause I wanted to see what, you know, what this is. And, and a lot of times it's, it's got like a lot of laughter and oh, you know, it's funny. They don't show you, you know, they might show the, the child or young person or whoever's doing it kind of lay down, fall out. But then they don't, you know, the video is not long, so you don't see what the after effects are. So even if that child fell, fell out, did when they fell, did they hit their head and that caused additional injury? Or was their injury 'cause their airway was cut off or whatever. And then also they have some that look like cartoons. So it's like, oh, oh, you know, oh, you, yeah. Oh, you know, and it's just, it just makes it look fun or something. And I'm like, I mean, if, if I wasn't an adult, I would think that that was okay. Sure. I would think it was just something to try. It's safe, 

Mia Minor:

you know, with the, the, the social media or the, just the having to do the likes, a lot of people do, or the children looks at the likes and trying to, the attention, the attention of building some type of rapport, followers, financial followers,

Todd Minor: (33:41)

Audience. Yeah.

Mia Minor: (33:42)

And that's the audience. And this is what, but, and, and, and not seeing the dangers of how it affects, you know, the ramifications of how it affects

Todd Minor: (33:52)

Yeah. The permanent,

Mia Minor: (33:53)

The permanent, um, yeah. And what will happen to, you know, the, their followers and, and, and just, just themselves of just keep, you know, doing stuff like this. So, you know, it's just very dangerous. Yeah.

Todd Minor: (34:07)

And, and you, and you bring, and Mia brings up a a great point. Yeah. I think even when we were reading a body language, it's a lot of peer pressure or peer Yeah. You know, it's the same as what we would have in, uh, physical school, except it's coming out through the social media. So Mm-Hmm. , they may have talked about it school, oh, hey, uh, if you saw that, I, I are, are you, uh, are you gonna do that? Or are you chicken? A lot of 'em have some preface, you know, uh, right on, on why they're doing it. Or some, or maybe if I do this, uh, you know, I'll do this if I get a certain amount of likes, or, or it just has all this laughter like you have on, on comedy shows and stuff, all that background laughter. Yeah. So, you know, a kid just looking at it, it just, you know, you're, you're, it brings all your defenses down, you know? Sure,

Hillary Wilkinson: (35:15)

Sure. And they don't, they don't see the ones that don't go that way.

Todd Minor: (35:19)

Right. So, yeah, exactly. Yeah. They don't see the dangers. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (37:17)

In January of this year, you guys were among the parents who attended the Senate hearings that included the five CEOs of top social media companies. You guys were in the crowd that Mark Zuckerberg famously turned around to, and I think did a not so great job of apologizing. I, um, . Yeah. But my question is this, do you believe that social media and the persuasive design with autoplay, the algorithms push that you were just talking about. Do you think that the social media platforms have a responsibility to protect children?

Todd Minor: (38:15)

Yeah. yeah, we both do. And if I could give kind of a point of view reason, you know, not just from the loss of Matthew, but you know, with my military experience, IT experience, and then also, uh, my actual additional security experience, uh, you know, I was trained in that by the, uh, federal government. And, uh, I look at it as, it's almost like a, uh, online attack. If you have a online attack on your network they, uh, bombard it. You know, it's, you know, just try to, uh, overload your network and, and then hopefully based on that, um, you know, that hopefully it will gain access or get, be able to do what they want to do.

Todd Minor: (39:10)

And I think that's what this algorithm does. It, it just, it just bombards the kids. I do believe that they have a responsibility because with talking with all the whistleblowers and everything that we've seen and talked to, just, and met with, they said that they know that that is exactly what's going on. They, they, you know, it's just hitting the kids. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (41:23)

You've got a platform here of our listeners. What would you, what would you like to see happen? What can we do?

Todd Minor: (41:37)

Well, we, as, the first thing we can do is, uh, all parents and, uh, fam, you know, individuals that care about our young people can contact our elected officials. We need to let them know that we need online child safety legislation passed. We need, um, uh, you know, and, and we need it passed now. I mean, KOSA is, is, uh, has the support, it has the sponsors, everything. We just need the elected officials to take it to a floor vote and vote it through and pass it. And then after that, then it'll be a,  regulating process. You know, it will hopefully have a regulating body, or some part of the government will regulate it, and then we'll be able to regulate them and kind of be able to make sure that they're doing what they are supposed to do to keep kids safe.

Todd Minor: (42:30)

Second, we can also just participate in, uh, all the efforts. We got grassroot efforts, you know, like, I mean, we're, uh, a smaller foundation, uh, Matthew E Minor Awareness foundation, but we can also participate, uh, with Parents SOS. Parents SOS is, if you think about it, Parents SOS when I was in the military, if you send the SOS signal out, that means I need help and send, send what you got. Mm-Hmm. send what you got to, to help and rescue me. We're, uh, members and part of Parents SOS because mm-Hmm. We, we just, we are trying to send that signal out to all parents and all family and all our citizens that this needs to be passed and we need to keep kids safe.

Todd Minor: (43:24)

Any way we can get the awareness out, because one thing I've noticed is after we've talked to a parent or given them our card, then after that, it's like they're armed. They at least they know to look for it. And that was where, where I think for us, even with all the protections and everything we thought we were doing right, we just didn't have the awareness that we have now.

Hillary Wilkinson: (45:16)

We have to take a short break, but when we come back, I am going to ask Todd and Mia Minor for their healthy screen habit. 

—-Ad Break : 988—----

Hillary Wilkinson: (47:51)

My guests today are Todd and Mia Minor, the parents of Matthew Minor, who is forever 12, after participating on the online deadly Choking Challenge he saw on every episode of the podcast, I ask for a healthy screen habit. And this is a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice in their own home. It's hard to ask you for something for help. I feel like you've given us so much good advice just on how we can band together and become an army of parents who are seeking to protect our kids. But I'm wondering, do you have a healthy screen habit to share with us today?

Todd Minor: (48:44)

Yeah, we have one tip, and, uh, uh, I think it's a really good tip. We, we always had family time, uh, where we would watch a show together, and then afterwards we would, uh, talk with, uh, our children and say, Hey, what did you learn? We, all of us would go around and, and give, uh, give kind of a input, you know, give our ideas and comments on what we learned from, from the show.

Todd Minor: (51:30)

You know, family is, is your strength. You know, I, I think as you're going through life and, and you're going through all the challenges and everything, what are you doing it for? I think thinking of, thinking of family is, is what keeps you going and, and doing what, what's right in the world, you know?

Hillary Wilkinson: (52:09)

I love all of that. Yeah. As always, a transcript of this episode plus links to the Matthew E Minor Awareness Foundation, which includes a link to the Memorial Scholarship Fund, will be posted on this episode's show notes. Todd, Mia, thank you so much for sharing your story of your amazing family and your tireless advocacy. You are, I have no doubt you are saving lives with the work that you do.

Todd Minor: (52:52)

Thank, yeah. Thank you so much for having us, Hillary. It was really good sharing and talking with you about that tonight.