Featured in Time Magazine as one of the best inventions of 2023. The Bark phone continues to expand and deliver upon the reliability and safety needs for kids as they explore their online life. I am so excited today to bring in Bark's Chief Parenting Officer to learn more about the phone, the Bark for Schools app, and so much more. She's a super well-known face in digital wellness and an expert on kids and tech. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits, Titania Jordan.

Titania Jordan: (01:02)

Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Hillary Wilkinson: (01:06)

Titania. Before we dive into this sort of world of digital wellness, I wonder could you tell us a little bit about yourself? What brought you to digital wellness? Mm.

Titania Jordan: (01:17)

You know, I think it was just a function of when I was born 1980, um, and being super interested and curious in how this whole tech thing works, you know? Um, and then social media came about at a time where I was, uh, a young professional and then a new mom. So it was a wonderful place for me to get real time support for being a mom for the first time. Um, and it just became a part of my life. And because of that, uh, there were not only good things about it, but also bad things. And once I started to realize how it was impacting me negatively and then apply it to how I knew it could and was impacting children negatively, I just, I couldn't think of a more fitting and important mission to focus on, uh, given my perspective and career choices, uh, then to keep kids safer online.

Hillary Wilkinson: (02:16)

So, um, I have to ask, 'cause I kind of love this title, Chief Parenting Officer , do you have a name tag you wear around the house or a uniform? Is it, is it respected in your home or is it just, just always right? Yeah, always. You're like, no, listen up guys, I'm a big deal here. .

Titania Jordan: (02:36)

Yeah. Like, in my own home, let's do this. Um, no, I don't. I'm, uh, so my son's almost 16 now. Um, I never see him. I am, you know, it's, it's a common meme now where parents joke about, um, texting your teenagers, like texting a guy who's not interested in you. You know, like Mm-Hmm. literally texted him we're in the same house. But I texted him today like, “I miss you. Can we hang out today?” Nothing nothing. So I forgot what you Oh, yeah. Chief Parenting Officer. Yeah. Nobody cares in my house. Um, but outside the house, kind of a big deal. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (03:14)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, they keep us honest, right? .

Titania Jordan: (03:18)

Right. But in all seriousness, you know, I know that's not a common title that, um, that you, you see, um, which is why I have a dual title of Chief Marketing Officer and Chief Parenting Officer. Um, but the Chief Parenting Officer one, it's really meaningful. Um, I didn't come up with it. Our CEO Brian Basin, who's a dad of two, uh, bestowed it upon me. And, um, it's, it's an honor because it's, that's what we're doing, is helping parents, parent in a world that has never existed before. We, we don't have a manual for this. Right. So, um, uh, yeah, I, uh, I don't take the responsibility lightly and, um, yeah. One day at a time, right,

Hillary Wilkinson: (04:05)

Yeah. Yeah. So I know that everybody focuses on this. We're navigating a whole new world, you know, thing. Mm-Hmm. , which I, yes, yes. And yes, we are. However, I argue that equally important is the fact that yes, we are the first generation of parents to be charting this new course within tech and parenting equally important, we are the last generation to remember the before.

Titania Jordan: (04:37)

Yes.

Hillary Wilkinson: (04:38)

Yes. So that is key. And it is key that people really sit in that throne of strength, of knowing the power, of being disconnected and of having time in your head.

Titania Jordan: (04:54)

Yeah. We are critical. Mm-Hmm. for this inflection point in terms of helping people to realize that it doesn't have to be this way. Mm-Hmm. , uh, and it's actually healthier to have more balance.

Hillary Wilkinson: (05:07)

I agree. I agree. So moving forward with that, how does the Bark App or using a Bark device, why is it important to install those things?

Titania Jordan: (05:25)

Well, um, it'd be one thing if the tech that we let our children access was just inherently safe. And we had, they had to, or somebody had to go through a lot of work to try to make it unsafe. But in fact, it's the opposite. Um, and so just by bringing the internet into your home, or putting a smart TV on your wall, or handing your child a tablet that's not theirs. It's just yours, but you're letting them play with it. You are introducing them to some of the worst content and people that exist. Mm-Hmm. . So there is a need for education, uh, tools, uh, like Bark that help children to have a safer experience with tech and help parents be in the know when their children have encountered problematic content or problematic people. Um, and I know we'll probably talk about this at some point, but there's also greater need, uh, for, you know, legislation to help thwart some of this stuff from even happening in the first place. Mm-Hmm.

Hillary Wilkinson: (06:30)

. Mm-Hmm. Do you have any of the current stats around cyber harms?

Titania Jordan: (06:36)

I mean, we could have seven podcasts on that right alone. Right, right. Um, but from our annual report, um, which we, every year we analyze, uh, billions of data points, uh, across, you know, Bark helps to protect over 7 million children across the United States. And, um, last year, 2023, we analyzed over 5.6 billion data points across children's text, email, social media accounts, et cetera. And, and what we found just from our internal data is staggering. I mean, 33% of tweens and 57% of teens were involved in a self-harm or suicidal situation. 58% of tweens and 75% of teens encountered nudity or content of a sexual nature. I mean, I could go on and on and on and on and on. Predators, disordered eating, bullying, depression, violence, anxiety, it's, it's a lot. It's heavy. And we're talking about children.

Hillary Wilkinson: (07:42)

Right, right. No, and I, I, you know, I, I question whether this, uh, announcement that Instagram made big news recently with the big announcement of the parental controls. I don't know if they're effective, if at all, but you are exactly the person who I need to be asking this too.

Titania Jordan: (08:12)

Yes. Yes. .

Hillary Wilkinson: (08:12)

Are are they any good? Is that like, so Instagram's big news of, oh, we have parental controls, which the timing of that announcement was really choice. I'll just add with, you know, with the whole, with KOSA and which is now KOSPA in, uh, in legislation, and it was, it was really interesting the timing around Instagram's big announcement, but are they any good? Is the, are the parental controls in Instagram any good?

Titania Jordan: (08:43)

Are they any good? Yes, they are something and something's better than nothing. Um, they are meaningful, but they're not enough. You know, if Instagram launched this three years ago, I would be applauding it, uh, more wholeheartedly. But to your point, they could have done this a long time ago. Mm-Hmm. And they decided to do it within 24 hours of a Senate committee hearing around this very topic of regulating big tech when it comes to online safety of children. So that's incredibly suspect. Um, and what they neglected to do, which child privacy and safety experts have highlighted as one of the major problems around predation and bullying and sextortion, is they neglected to hide the following and follower, uh, count, uh, not only count, but the, the details of who's following a child and who the child is following. And that's problematic because if you're trying to abuse a child and you're trying to get into their inner circle, you start to friend request their circle so that you seem like a mutual connection.

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:52)

Absolutely. Um, and that's how we know how most sextortion rings are operating. Right. How most sextortion rings are getting into kids' dms by sort of this like co-vetting of Yeah. They’re, they're friends of friends, therefore the, you know, the individual who's being approached with the friend request is, is vetting them via association.

Titania Jordan: (10:18)

Right. And you have to wonder why didn't they give that, uh, option, um, you know, for Facebook also owned by Meta, you can do that. You can turn off the ability for your friends to see your friend list. So why not with an Instagram? Right. Especially for minors. So are they, are they, um, are they worthwhile? Yeah, they're great, but they should have already existed and they're not going to prevent, you know, some of the core issues that are happening on that platform.

Hillary Wilkinson: (10:48)

Right. When we come back, we're going to talk about how Bark is helping kids stay safe on school devices. 

—--------Ad Break: Donor thank you

Hillary Wilkinson:

I'm speaking with Titania Jordan, the CMO and Chief Parent Officer at Bark Technologies, a company that helps to protect over 7 million children across the nation through their app and safer Smartphone for Children. In 2020 our schools did something that prior to the COVID-19 shutdown was unprecedented. They issued one-to-one devices to every student. Now, these were absolutely crazy times. We were all doing the best with what we could, with what we had. And that being said, it has largely never gone back. Okay. We've got those one-to-One Devices Tech is in the hands of most school kids daily. And as we all know where kids go, predators will follow. And I, I mean, we cannot count the number of stories we hear at Healthy Screen Habits about school issued devices accessing inappropriate content. Parents are so frustrated. And a big part of the reason why I wanted Titania to come on was many parents that I speak to are not aware of Bark for Schools. And can you do a deep dive for us into Bark for Schools? I mean, like Absolutely. Yeah. Like, when you guys developed it, you know, cost, what's it compatible with? I, I'll, I'll pepper you with questions. .

Titania Jordan: (12:57)

Yes, go for it. Yeah. So Bark For Schools is our free give back, um, to any K through 12 school in the United States. Um, we provide monitoring for Microsoft 365 and Google Workspace, including Chrome and Chromebook and DNS filtering. We launched Bark for Schools, uh, in response to the tragic Parkland shooting, um, as a way to help schools protect students online at no cost to them or their communities. You know, we knew that our tech was helping consumers, parents, um, with their children and issues that were happening on the personal devices, but we also know that a lot of times things are happening on school issued devices. Mm-Hmm. , like children writing suicide notes, uh, or threats in Google Docs. Right? On the school issued Chromebooks. And so, um, the fact that we're able to, uh, thwart credible threats, uh, because of this work with Bark for Schools and our footprint of over, uh, 3,700 school districts now is just so meaningful.

Titania Jordan: (14:00)

So it's free, it's free for any school in the nation. Um, there is, as we've seen a need for essentially 24/7, 365 on call service, uh, so that if a school administrator gets an alert and it's 2:00 AM and they can't wait until 8:00 AM the next day, um, there is a, a, a paid version, almost like a, you know, hotline. Like, Hey, let's, let's deal with this asap. mm-hmm. . Um, so that part isn't free, but we have to pay for the people to, you know, be available to talk to you. Um, so that's how that is paid for. But, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's been incredible what this collaboration has surfaced. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (14:48)

For sure. For sure. Now, just for clarity, is it something that parents can use on their own, or do you have to have a school subscribe to Bark for Schools? Or like, how does that all work?

Titania Jordan: (15:02)

So it depends what the school decided to do. We, so the school gets Bark for free and they connect the school issue devices and accounts, but they also have a parent dashboard that we give them. Now, if they turn that on, then a parent is able to go to that dashboard and collaborate with the school administration on things that are happening. And within that dashboard, we give parents the ability to upgrade and, you know, use Bark, um, for their personal devices as well. Some schools will pay for Bark for their families. Um, so then these parents actually have Bark for their personal home use for free, um, that they can take advantage of. Um, sometimes there's discounts, sometimes it just, it just, it's school by school. But essentially, um, Bark For Schools is free. Every school should use it. It can be compatible with other, uh, filtering and monitoring systems too, if you are have already, you know, signed up for something and paying for something, but you want a little extra, uh, robust AI. Um, yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson: (16:11)

Yeah. So the, the question, the next question I have is around like privacy. Mm-Hmm. . So if you're using Bark for Schools, do the notifications of alerts go, they don't go to the parents, they go to school admin? Is that how it works?

Titania Jordan: (16:27)

Yes. Yeah. Okay. Uh, um, yeah, the, the school issued devices and accounts are the responsibility of the school.

Hillary Wilkinson: (16:37)

Gotcha.

Titania Jordan: (16:37)

Um, and they're also responsible for protecting the children that they give that to. Mm-Hmm. . And so when there's an issue that comes up, then it goes to the admin. Um, yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson: (16:47)

Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Well, thank you. Mm-Hmm. . So let's move from Bark from Schools and now talk about the Bark phone. Yes. Which is a super great alternative as a first phone. And can you tell us about the Bark phone? Like, why is it better than just taking a stripped down iPhone or a flip phone or something like that?

Titania Jordan: (17:13)

Yeah. So the Bark phone, um, was built essentially by our CTO, Brandon —-, a dad of two. Um, and his children really, really wanted a smartphone, and he was like, absolutely not unless I can build a safer one for you. And he did. And it's, uh, it's the most customizable kids' phone with text and social media monitoring built in. Now that said, we know that kids, you know, really don't need social media. And so there's many options. You can give your child a bark phone and not have any internet or social media on it at all. It's just talking and texting and that's it. And you can track your child's location, um, et cetera. You even have the ability to turn the camera on and off remotely. Let's say they're going to a friend's house and you're, you just don't want them messing around with a camera, you know, taking photos or videos.

Titania Jordan: (18:12)

Boom. You can handle that from your own smartphone, um, as your child grows. Um, or let's say, you know, their teacher really wants them to do some research, and so you want to let them use the browser for a minute. You can turn that on and sit aside them and, and, you know, look up something that they need to look up and then turn it back off. Um, you can set time limits that actually work. And I say that because a lot of families will opt to give their child an iPhone and think, oh, well, I'll just use screen time. And that would be great if screen time didn't have known bugs that have been out for over two years that Apple still hasn't fixed.

Hillary Wilkinson: (18:53)

Yeah, very true. Yeah. So, um, do you wanna add anything more?

Titania Jordan: (19:00)

Yeah, I just wanna say like a few more things about the Bark phone because it's just like, there's so many great things about it that don't exist with other phones. For example, we know that sexting is a problem with children. It's the new first base. And so with the Bark phone, if a child goes to take a nude photo or video, it doesn't save to the device. It doesn't even let them capture child sexual abuse material much less send it. Um, which is a huge, huge, uh, sigh of relief for parents when they're giving their kid a digital device. Um,

Hillary Wilkinson: (19:29)

So how does it do that? Who, like, how

Titania Jordan: (19:32)

, right, right.

Hillary Wilkinson: (19:34)

I, I like, I'm just from my own curiosity, how does it, how does it know?

Titania Jordan: (19:40)

Um, our data science team is incredible and was able to, uh, create, I guess parameters, for lack of a better term, um, to help decipher if the media surfaced, um, was a child uhhuh. Uh, it's, you know, I, um, I can't speak to it because I'm not a data scientist or an engineer. Um, and also proprietary,

Hillary Wilkinson: (20:08)

But I, I wouldn't understand it anyways.

Titania Jordan: (20:10)

So , well, . But, um, yeah, no, I mean, when our, when when Brandon told me like, Hey, we're we're building this functionality, I was like, are you kidding me? Like, this is the game changer. Like this is lifesaving. So,

Hillary Wilkinson: (20:26)

And, and like, you know, you just wonder why doesn't, if you guys can do it, I'm positive that Meta can do it. And why isn't Meta doing it already? I,

Titania Jordan: (20:37)

Exactly. And back to Apple for a minute. Um, within Apple, for those families listening who have already given their children, you know, apple devices, there is something within screen time, uh, called communication safety. And if you turn the communication safety feature on it will, if it detects it, blur nude imagery and almost give children a little bit of a speed bump notification of like, Hey, this looks like it's sensitive media. Are you sure you wanna send it? Are you sure you wanna view it Now that's better than not doing anything at all, but it's still not enough. You know, I don't think we need to leave it up to children to decide whether they want to send nudes or not.

Hillary Wilkinson: (21:19)

Right. Right. 'cause clearly, I mean, if they're taking them, they have the intent. So .

Titania Jordan: (21:25)

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, for older children, you can lock the bark phone while they're driving, um, to help limit distractions. I mean, honestly, we all need that. Right. Um, I mean, there's so many, there's so many things because we looked at this through the lens of if and when it's time for a child to have a safer smartphone, what should that look like? How can we help them utilize the best that comes with this technological innovation and mitigate the harms and the distractions? Mm-Hmm.

Hillary Wilkinson: (21:56)

. Mm-Hmm. . So I know that even as we're talking, and I'm convinced, but , what if parents are still kind of like on the fence over this, like monitoring, limiting screen use all the, you know, all of the things. Do you have any set advice that you kind of give parents to, I don't wanna say convince them, but just to educate as far as,

Titania Jordan: (22:24)

You know, I like to just think back to what I would do differently. You know, as a mom of a sophomore in high school, whew. I made all the mistakes, all of them. Um, and so what I, what I would do if I had a do-over, gosh, I wish I had a do-over, um, I would delay, delay, delay as my friend, our friend, probably Chris McKenna says, delay is the way. Um, just because all my, all of my son's friends are playing, you know, Roblox or Minecraft or Fortnite doesn't mean we need that in our home. Um, just because everybody in my son's fourth grade class got an iPhone doesn't mean that he needed one as well to fit in. Right. Um, you know, our children will pull on our heartstrings and appeal to our desire for them to not be left out. Mm-Hmm.

Titania Jordan: (23:18)

'em to not be left out and, and implore us to not let them be left out. But on the flip side, it's our jobs to make sure our children are left out of the bullying and graphic sexual content and addictive algorithms. So I would just be confident in the fact that you are the adult, you are the parent. It is your job to keep your kids safer, not only in real life with seat belts, but online. And so tech is neither good nor bad. It's a tool. So make sure you have the safer version of the tool. Right. Like when your kid turns 16, you don't give them a Lamborghini with no seatbelt, give them a Honda with airbags. Right. And, and so just, yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson: (24:02)

And with lots of drivers training ,

Titania Jordan: (24:04)

Lots of, and, and car insurance. Right. Yeah. And, um, so, you know, I've clearly gone down a rabbit hole now, or like I'm on my soapbox. Um, and I, I don't know if I answered your question, but essentially

Hillary Wilkinson: (24:17)

That's okay. I think personal testimony is very powerful advice because, you know, you have the benefit of that, that 20/20 hindsight that a lot of times we wish we had before. Yes. You know, and,

Titania Jordan: (24:33)

Well, not, not only that, if I may interrupt, um, I started a Facebook group called Parenting in a Tech World in 2017 when my son was younger, and I needed help and advice, and I was like, “let me crowdsource!” Okay, now there's over 550,000 parents in that group, and I have yet to hear a parent say, I should have given my child access to X, Y, Z sooner. Not yet. And on the flip side, every single day, my same story is being echoed. And so that's why I'm so confident about it.

Hillary Wilkinson: (25:06)

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I think that's perfect advice. I wouldn't change a thing. . Okay,

Titania Jordan: (25:11)

Great.

Hillary Wilkinson: (25:12)

So I, um, I don't want to name call, but I feel like you, again are uniquely qualified to answer this question. So with all of your background and your research and all of the things, what do you see as the most problematic social media app?

Titania Jordan: (25:34)

Oh, I would say Snapchat.

Hillary Wilkinson: (25:42)

Oh my gosh. We're aligned. . Yeah.

Titania Jordan: (25:45)

I mean, the reason Snapchat started as an app was to send disappearing nudes. Mm-Hmm.

Hillary Wilkinson: (25:54)

It was called Peekaboo. Yeah.

Titania Jordan: (25:56)

Yeah. So it was

Hillary Wilkinson: (25:56)

Originally called Peekaboo, and yeah. Due to it name infringement issues, they had to change it. And hence the name Snapchat evolved. And Snapchat now has this marketing campaign about, you know, not being social media: being connection!

Titania Jordan: (26:15)

Oh my gosh.

Hillary Wilkinson: (26:16)

I, oh, give it to me Titania! Go ahead.

Titania Jordan: (26:20)

Every time I see one of those blasted billboards, I'm just like, err. And for those of you who can't see me right now, I'm raising my fist in just like a err, I'm so mad. 'cause it's a lie. It's like less like

Hillary Wilkinson: (26:34)

That a lie.

Titania Jordan: (26:35)

Yeah. Less likes, more Snapchat, like not social media. You are the epitome of social media. Right. Everything

Hillary Wilkinson: (26:42)

That you could define 

Titania Jordan: (26:45)

Oh my, yes. Gosh, Idiots!

Hillary Wilkinson: (26:46)

And, okay, so it started within this realm of this sneaky, sneaky kind of winky wink thing of like disappearing nudes. But now even more, I, you know, it's hard to say even more because the damage is the damage, right? Mm-Hmm. . And we're not gonna, I'm not gonna, I I I will not put pain on a continuum here. It's all pain that is being caused. Mm-Hmm. by the amount of drug trafficking and fentanyl deaths that are happening as a result of drug trafficking on Snapchat.

Titania Jordan: (27:21)

Yeah. Children are dying. Yes. Uh, it's not just a nudes issue. Correct. Or an exploitation issue or reputation issue. Children are dying because of the app, because of Snapchat. Um, children can have drugs delivered to their home as easily and quickly and covertly, uh, as a pizza, just slip it in their mailbox. Mm-Hmm. . Um, and we've seen the faces of those precious children, you know, on, on cards behind hearings that have taken place, uh, where Evan Spiegel was in the audience, the CEO of Snap. I don't think he turned around and apologized. Um, so that's, that's one thing, correct me if I'm wrong, uh, and not just, not just drug trafficking, but let's talk about, um, making children feel acutely left out. Mm-Hmm. , you know, with Snap Maps. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:10)

With Snap Maps. Yep.

Titania Jordan: (28:10)

Yeah. I, I, I can't think of a reason why I need to see where all my friends are and I'm not, um, you know, the, my AI feature built into the app that leads children astray with bad advice. Mm-Hmm. , uh, the, my eyes Only Vault, uh, that hides things that I would argue children don't need to even be encountering exposed

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:31)

To. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah.

Titania Jordan: (28:32)

Or, um, or media. You know, there, there are collaborations with platforms like HBO that show children content that they're not ready for yet. I mean, it just, they're, I can't think of a single good thing about this app.

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:45)

No. When we present at, um, parent education nights, you know, various schools, et cetera, I have had more than one administrator stand up and just say, the thing that consumes the most amount of their time is Snapchat. And it's just, it's so, I agree with you. It's my least. It, it is my least favorite and by least favorite, I'm gonna put it on the most hated social media app list. 

Titania Jordan: (29:19)

Yeah. I, um,

Titania Jordan: (29:25)

And sorry, I'm just so angry about this. Like, Snapchat's this, this bold resistance to work with families Yes. Who have lost children Yes. And parental control options that could help, because at the end of the day, they know that the second they roll out meaningful parental controls, the user base is gone. Mm-Hmm. . And they're struggling with revenue. Um, it's why they roll out Snapchat plus, and, uh, the solar system feature, I mean, it's just like, oh, they're just so bad. They're so bad and they're so wrong, and there's so many things that they could do, um, that they are not doing. And it's, it's wrong.

Hillary Wilkinson: (30:10)

We have to take a short break. But when we come back, I am going to ask Titania Jordan for her healthy screen habit. 

—Ad Break: Bark

 I'm speaking with Titania Jordan from Bark, a company whose mission is to keep kids safer online. On every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit. This is going to be a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice in their own home nearly immediately. What's yours?

Titania Jordan: (31:24)

Love this question. Uh, please do not allow connected tech in the bedrooms or behind closed doors. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (31:34)

Yep.

That's it!

Titania Jordan: (31:36)

Period. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (31:36)

I agree!

Titania Jordan: (31:39)

Easy, free, everybody can do it. You cannot argue with it.

Hillary Wilkinson: (31:42)

Exactly. Collect all devices or j and just set that precedent of I love that. No connected tech. Yeah. In bedroom.

Titania Jordan: (31:49)

Yeah. And that includes, that includes smart TVs and gaining consoles. Yes. A lot of people just think, oh, smartphones, iPads, it's anything, anything that connects on the internet doesn't belong in a bedroom or behind closed doors for a child at least.

Hillary Wilkinson: (32:02)

Yes. As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show, as well as a link to the Bark website by visiting this show notes for this episode. If you do decide to order from it, use the code HSHabits to receive a discount. Do this by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button and find this episode.  Titania, thank you so much for being here today and for working so hard every day to keep all of our kids safe.

Titania Jordan: (32:35)

Thank you. Right back at you.