Hillary Wilkinson: (00:00)

Time and time again when I ask digital wellness experts and in school administrators for the most problematic social media platform. The answer is the same. It's always Snapchat. Snapchat is one of the most widely used social media platforms in the world, with billions of snaps generated every day. It's the communication style of choice for many teens. And this is due to its design that automatically deletes pictures, videos, and communications after a short amount of time. So, originally, this feature was utilized in the adult industry, but very quickly became a huge hit with younger social media users. Evan Spiegel, one of the creators and CEO of Snapchat, claimed in 2013 that Snapchat changed the perception that deleting something was bad. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (01:16)

He said, “Online you typically delete something if it's bad or embarrassing.” But Snapchat removed this pressure and this disappearing feature is also what has made Snapchat the platform of choice for drug dealers. The ability to sell drugs anonymously, get paid online, and set up drop offs or deliveries has exploded an illegal market for dealing. This compounded with counterfeit pharmaceuticals, laced with fentanyl, has created a deadly wave of drug related deaths. And today I'm speaking with the lady who's taught me all of this, who learned this in the worst way imaginable. She found this all out when trying to understand the death of her beautiful and talented son: Alexander. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits, my friend Amy Neville.

Amy Neville: (02:25)

Hi, Hillary. Thank you for having me.

Hillary Wilkinson: (02:27)

Amy, thank you so much for being here today. I have learned so much from you, your tireless work in anti-drug education and the dangers of Snapchat and working with Parents SOS, which is a community of bereaved parents who have lost their children to online harms arms. And before we get into it, we kind of did a little check-in, but I just wanted to make sure you're having an okay day. 

Amy Neville: (02:58)

I'm having an okay day . That's about the best we can expect.

Hillary Wilkinson: (03:02)

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And Amy, are you up for, I feel like, I feel like I've grown to know Alexander through your story and through your time, but I've, I mean, just an outstanding guy. Mm-hmm . Outstanding kid. Can you, are you up for sharing about him today? 

Amy Neville: (03:22)

Sure. I love talking about him, you know, and it, it, it, it's hard, but it's weird to say that because that's really hard, right? Mm-hmm . Because it's, it's gonna be emotional, but at the same time, it keeps me connected to him and mm-hmm . Because all I want is my kid, you know? Um, so Alex was a pretty typical 14-year-old. He was an anxious teenager, if you will. He was looking forward to high school. He kept asking me, “Mom, do you think I'm gonna like high school?” And I was like, oh, yeah. And I would talk about why he would, we would talk about why he might like it and what the challenges might look like. And, and, but he was up for it. He was really actually looking forward to it, uh, as a 14-year-old. And, you know, he was a leader among his friends. You know, they'd play video games together, and he was always leading the squad or the team or whatever it was.

Amy Neville: (04:07)

Uh, he, he was a kiddo with big ideas. Like he, early on, uh, loved history, loved Egyptology, had fancied himself as maybe one day being a director of a Smithsonian. He would, he would thought a lot about things and thought deeply about things. And then when he was really passionate about something, he would take that, like the Egyptology or World War ii, or a video game, or Pokemon cards, whatever it was, he would learn and learn and learn. And then he would share that with people. Like, he would get people on board with his thoughts and ideas about these things. He was very persuasive. Uh, and I think it was just that, that passion that he had, uh, when he would communicate about these things and he'd bring people into his circle on, on, on fun and interesting things, you know, a lot of what we did as a family revolved around Alexander's interests, whether it be going to Comic-Con or a Lego convention.

Amy Neville: (05:01)

Uh, world War Brick was an Anaheim a couple years, and we went each year because, you know, that was Alexander's thing. He wanted to be a part of that. And we'd spend the entire weekend there for his sake, you know, uh, dressing up like assassins from Assassin's Creed and going to Comic-Con, that was really fun. We did that one year. Uh, his birthday parties would be like a Civil War reenactments.

Hillary Wilkinson: (05:39)

Yeah. Yeah. I love that you kind of talk about all of the things that you guys have done as a family, because in seeing some of the footage that you've been so generous to share with, like family videos and stuff like that. I look at your family and the thing that I find, the thing that like, you know, drives the icicle through into my heart, is that I look at your family and I go, oh, that's, I, I know that family. That's mine. You know? Mm-hmm . I mean, you guys, you were heavily involved in activities. Mm-hmm . You're a heavily involved mom. Alexander did also, I'm only saying this, just, um, you know, as to add more information in. Sure. But you're very open with the fact that Alexander also had ADHD. 

Amy Neville: (06:28)

Yep, he had just been, uh, the, the fall before he had been diagnosed with, um, a DD. And, uh, we didn't realize it because we had this narrow vision of what a DD is. Kids are hyperactive, they can't focus. And so that's the perception that we had of ADD. Uh, and through elementary school, he had amazing teachers who gave him space to walk around the classroom to fidget to express his ideas and things that might be going on. So it was, it was easy to not detect, if you will. Sure. Uh, but we learned that there's several different types of ADD and Alexander had this like, uh, version where he would obsess about things and think really hard about things, and feel things really intensely. And so we were just starting to learn how to work with that and work with him. And we were working on, uh, least invasive to most invasive treatment. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (07:24)

Sure, sure. Um, are you comfortable talking about the events that kind of led up to the night that Alexander was killed? Yeah. By Fentanyl? Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Amy Neville: (07:34)

Yeah, we can talk about that. I think it's important because we, um, it was the summer of 2020 between eighth grade and what would've been his high school year. Uh, he had just celebrated his birthday that summer, and he was, we had kind of fallen into a routine where he was, uh, selling off toys on eBay from when he was little, which was really hard and sad for me as a mom. But he was good at it, very organized, uh, communicated with his customers. He just really had a knack for, he prepackaged all these packages so they'd be ready to go when somebody bought something. And so we were, he, we were kind of this routine of every day where he was delivering packages, skateboarding, playing video games. Uh, he'd go out and ride his bike. Uh, he would get online with friends. Uh, and we were having dinner together every night at that time.

Amy Neville: (08:22)

And that was at Alexander's request. Uh, he helped me grocery shop. He helped me pick out like what we should be eating. Like he was really involved, uh, with the family almost more so than he had been in recent months. Mm. And, and he was into it. He liked it. But, uh, along came a point where he asked me if he could bring his TV up to his bedroom. 'cause we had a rule, if you're gonna play video games, it's always in the common area, so you're not isolating off in your bedroom. And, um, no matter how raucous he got, we, we let it happen because I wanted him to stay in the family space Sure. In community space, if you will. Uh, uh, so he is like, he gave me, he gave me some really good arguments as to why he should be allowed to have his, his, um, TV up in his room.

Amy Neville: (09:06)

And I, I agreed to it, but the door had to stay open. And when I called him, he had to respond. Like it was, you know, if I came to get him for dinner, there had to be a quick turnaround in these things, or the TV would come back downstairs. And so we were doing okay with that. And he wasn't playing video games for too long a period of time. It'd be in the afternoon a little bit. And then sometimes he and his sister and dad would play at night. Uh, and then, uh, he broke his TV and I was very adamant that, well, we're not just gonna run out and buy you a new one. You're, you know, you're gonna have to replace his TV on your own. He was making money on eBay. Like, let we, I'll take you shopping. We can get a new TV, but you broke it 'cause you were careless. So there's consequences for that. And he didn't wanna buy a TV right away, so now he's not playing the games. He's becoming a little more disconnected from us at that point. Uh, and he started spending more time online on, on Snapchat. And that's when things started to get a little weird. And, um, so for a few days went by and things were just really off with him. Big mood swings, which were kind of in-line with his personality because he had a very big personality to begin with.

Hillary Wilkinson: (10:16)

And he was 14

Amy Neville: (10:17)

And he was 14. Exactly. I mean, the height of puberty, like, it wasn't really outta line, but just your mom instincts. I'm like, okay, something's off. And so I asked him like, “okay, dude, like, what is up? Are you using something?” And he was like, “No, mom. I was up late. I ate something bad.” And again, puberty. So I just didn't give it much thought that night. I, I believed him. Um, but I wanted to take, so wanted to take him to the doctor. I wanted to find a new therapist. 'cause his therapist was on a medical leave at that point. And it was a day a half later, he came back to me. He said, okay, I have to talk to you guys. He sat us down at the kitchen table and proceeded to pour his heart out to us. This on a Sunday evening. And he told us, you know, uh, told us a lot. But the three key things that came outta that conversation were, I wanted to experiment with Oxy. I got it from a dealer on Snapchat. It has a hold on me I don't know why. Excuse

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:04)

Me. No, no, you're fine. We can take as long as you need.

Amy Neville: (11:11)

Thank you. Yeah. So of course I did what any parent would do. You know, I spring into action that next day. I called the treatment place. We thought we were gonna get 'em in by Wednesday. You know, they told me they needed to call me back with their recommendation. So, okay, we're gonna wait for that call. I took Alex to get his hair cut. He and his dad went out to lunch. He went and bought a bunch of candy. He went and hung out with friends, delivered the eBay packages, skateboard video games, like all the usual things. And he came home around nine o'clock that night and we said goodnight. That was the last time I saw him. The lights went up to his room. You know, that morning when I woke up, I remember thinking, wow, it was so weird I didn't hear Alex in the night. He must have really been sleeping hard. Cause usually he was a night owl. I always heard him up in the middle of the night making food, whatever he was doing in the kitchen mm-hmm . Um, and so I let him sleep. And I, I, I, um, went to go wake him up for orthodontist's appointment. And that's when we realized he was gone.

Hillary Wilkinson: (12:12)

Yeah. Yeah. And he was gone. Just so everybody's completely clear. He was, he was gone. Yep. He was, because he had taken,

Amy Neville: (12:20)

He, um, had taken a pill that night. Sometime after nine o'clock, he took the pill that took his life. Um, that was not his intention, you know, he, he wanted help. This kid was scared. Um, and, and we didn't know what we were dealing with. Uh, no one was talking about fentanyl at that time, the illicit fentanyl. And no one was talking about the depths of social media harms. You know, we, we spot checked social media. We had internet go off at our house. Like we thought we had guardrails in place to keep our kids safe in these spaces. And, and we were not operating with all the information. And that's by design. These companies don't want us operating with all the information. They're like look out for sexual predators, look out for bullies. And we did those things. Yeah. And yet here we are, you know? Yeah. Had I, had, I seen drug con, no one was talking about the drug emoji code that exists at the time. And so, had I seen it, I wouldn't have known what I was looking at.

Hillary Wilkinson: (13:10)

Right. Right. And you, since Alexander's death has have absolutely committed yourself to the education of others so that nobody has to live through this like you, like you are. And when we come back, I wanna talk about some ways to recognize drug dealer communications, like you just talked about, as well as to kind of how to start the conversation about fentanyl with your family. 

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Hillary Wilkinson: (15:22)

I'm speaking with Amy Neville, founder of the Alexander Neville Foundation, and Mom of two: Eden, her teenage daughter, and Alexander, who is forever 14 after losing his life to an accidental fentanyl overdose. So, how is this happening? How are drugs being trafficked on Snapchat? Amy like, I mean, just, I, I, I feel like I am, I hate to use your pain as the path, but I just, I feel like we have so much to learn, and I know that that is your commitment and your dedication to Alexander. So how is it happening?

Amy Neville: (16:08)

So, in a variety of ways. So when I first started this work, I was naive and I thought kids wanna, kids that want to experiment are gonna go out and find a drug dealer, you know, happens in dark, scary places. Um, but after meeting with teens, I quickly realized, okay, wait, no, this is like way more commonplace and way more of a marketplace on Snapchat and other social media, uh, than I, than I realized, right? Like, when, when Alex told us he got it on Snapchat, it didn't occur to me that this was a problem. I, I immediately thought it was a one-off thing that happened in our family. And so, um, I started talking to experts, and then of course, the teens are where, where the information's really at. They've been incredible. And so I learned, yes, there are teens who might be curious and they're gonna maybe seek somebody out.

Amy Neville: (16:57)

There are teens who are groomed. It's this drug dealer becomes friends with them on Snapchat or wherever the other social, whatever, social media. And over the course of time, they groom them. And 45, 60 days later, our kids are doing things we'd never thought they'd do before and things they never intended on doing. Um, there's another way of, Hey, I'm the kid puts it out on social media. I'm feeling really sad today. For whatever reason, drug dealer has a solution to that slides into their dms and says, “Hey, you're sad. I've got something to help you out.” And they act empathetic, like they care, right? And our kids are in these low decision making moments. And then another trend is that a kid puts it out so excited. My parents said, I can save for my first car Dealer slides into the dms. “Hey, I got a job for you you can earn some quick cash.”

Amy Neville: (17:40)

Oh. And now next thing you know, these kids are doing selling drugs to their friends because they are wrapped, they got wrapped up in this somehow. Um, so that's, I mean, that's a few ways. I recently spoke to kids in juvenile detention, asking them what they were seeing and what they're doing. I mean, these are kids who are drug dealers. These are kids who have killed people. It's a whole thing. And, and, uh, they were tell telling me kind of like the, the latest way it's happening, and that is Snap is more of a hub for these drug dealers 'cause Snap is starting to remove drug content, right? They're starting to do things that make them look good in the public eye. Is it, is it foolproof? And a hundred percent absolutely not. Let's be really clear, it's a bandaid solution. I'm, I'm quite, I feel quite strong about that, but, so these kiddos are telling me, Nope, snap to the hub. I meet them on Instagram, and then we go finish the transactions on Snapchat because those messages are gonna disappear. Mm. So it's still in there. It's still part of the problem. And, until these companies say they'll do the right, will actually do the right thing, rather than saying that they're doing the right things. Uh, we're this is, this is what our teens are up against.

Hillary Wilkinson: (18:53)

Right, right. And you had mentioned, just so in the event that we have parents that are like, Hmm, I need to go and look through. Yeah. My kids' dms and stuff like that, what you had mentioned earlier, like the emojis that are used as code mm-hmm . And I'd like to ask for two things. One, can you give a couple examples? And two, where can parents look for that for like an emoji, uh, translator? Sure, sure. Or like a legend, if you will. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Amy Neville: (19:27)

The legend. Uh, it's a funny way to think of it.

Hillary Wilkinson: (19:30)

Well, like a map

Amy Neville: (19:32)

Way, you're absolute Right. Right. I hadn't, I just hadn't thought of it. That's, that's a really distinct way to look at it. Um, who uses maps anymore? Hillary, come on. Right. . Um, so one of the easiest ones, especially when it comes to the pills, there is a blue circle with an M on it that symbolizes that blue M 30 pill. That's a very common one. Sometimes they'll use different leaves and things for marijuana. Um, the magic eight ball is on there, so you can, you know, cocaine. So there's a lot of different ways. But you can look up DEA drug emoji code, and A PDF will pop right up on Google for you that you can take a look at.

Hillary Wilkinson: (20:08)

Okay. And I will put a link to that. Okay. Great. Code in our show notes. So definitely, and I'll tell you how to get to that at the end of this episode. So I feel like even as we're talking about fentanyl, people are not realizing like how fentanyl, why fentanyl is an issue. They're not realizing like the magnitude of the problem with counterfeit pharmaceuticals. Mm-hmm . And can you share some of the numbers on statistics of drug use, fentanyl deaths mm-hmm . Things like that. So

Amy Neville: (20:45)

Just to give us some perspective on drug related deaths in the, uh, 20 year period from, uh, 2020 to 2019, as the US had around 400,000 drug related deaths in just the last four years alone, we'll reach that number. That is the power of fentanyl. It is incredibly deadly and incredibly potent. And when these pills are made, or these powders are made, or it's laced into cocaine or heroin or methamphetamines, whatever else, it's in the no one's using, you know, science to measure it out. They're taking the drug or the, the, uh, in the case of the pill, that's just a binding agent throwing in the fentanyl powder, blending it up literally in a blender, like think magic bullet, throwing it through a pill press. So there's not an even distribution in there. So we always, you know, give the example of, think of chocolate chip cookies, right? We've all either eaten chocolate chip cookies or made chocolate chip cookies. And those chocolate chips are not dispersed in that batter evenly. Right? So that fentanyl is that chocolate chip cookie. It's not dispersed evenly. Some will be totally loaded, some might not have any at all. So it is, um, it's, it's really dangerous. I mean, people and the, and the, go

Hillary Wilkinson: (21:56)

Ahead. Oh, I was gonna say, and the amount of fentanyl needed to be fatal is, it's like smaller than a grain of rice.

Amy Neville: (22:03)

Yeah. It's like, what can fit on? The very tip of a pencil is how much it takes to kill somebody. And these kids, you know, Alex was maybe 110 pounds, skinny. Um, you know, his body's gonna metabolize a different than a 250 pound man. You know. And so there's varying factors in there. And these, our kids have, uh, especially, you know, these kids in these beginning stages, experimental phases, whatever we wanna call it, uh, they, they don't have that experience of use, right? Mm-hmm . Um, 'cause the, the tolerance of fentanyl builds really quickly. So you need more sooner, and you will, uh, uh, your body will need more and more and more, uh, to the point I, I met a lady who was taking 77 pills a day, but she had, oh gosh, she was already addicted to heroin when fentanyl finally entered her system.

Hillary Wilkinson: (23:46)

So you, earlier this year were featured in a feature length article in Rolling Stone. You've created two documentaries. You do countless hours of coalition work for anti-drug education. I'll link those two documentaries in the show notes, um, in the hopes that people will watch them. Because I, I learned so much and I sat with my kids and had them watch them. And when I do it, when I ask my kids to watch them, I really, I ask them also, do you think this is good content? Because it's very, it's, it's good to hear their feedback on it mm-hmm . But it also, um, creates an opportunity for us to have very good conversation around it. So I recommend parents, you know, ask the same, say, “Hey, you know, I, I wanted to watch this. Can you watch it with me? Watch and tell me if, if you're learning anything new, you know?” mm-hmm . So just a little parenting tip. 

Amy Neville: (24:46)

Yeah, I like that. I will tell you real quick, one of the best compliments I ever got was with the second film. I just started showing it in the first school district. I was in this last winter, and this kid up to me afterwards, and he says to me, you know, we've had drug prevention education before, but this was real. And like, the weight of that kid's words, man, he has no idea what that meant to me.

Hillary Wilkinson: (25:08)

No, no. Yeah. Okay. And so I don't wanna, I don't wanna tell your story, but I will say that the first documentary that you did : Dead on Arrival. Dead on Arrival I think is very hard hitting for parents. Mm-hmm . Because it's more of a parent perspective. Mm-hmm . But the second documentary had a much more, um, resounding impact on my children because it is told from the sibling perspective mm-hmm . And your daughter Eden's story is in that as well. And it is, it's incredibly powerful. And can you, what's the name of the second documentary?

Amy Neville: (25:57)

Come Back Home.

Hillary Wilkinson: (25:58)

Come Back Home. So, yeah, and like I said, I will link both of those in the show notes as well. This is an episode that's packed with resources . So . So, um, you also, um, among other things are involved with a group of parents that's suing Snapchat. Yeah. And these are all parents who children have lost their lives. And I know this lawsuit is ongoing. Mm-hmm . Are you at liberty to talk about it at all? Yeah,

Amy Neville: (26:27)

I can talk about it a little bit. Okay. So it was filed a year ago. We had our first hearing a little over a year ago. And the judge did say that we could move into discovery, which was a huge, huge deal. It's the first one of its kind, you know, these fentanyl cases through social media that is being allowed to move into discovery. And so, you know, we're in the process. Our, we've had a couple of hearings since, and we're in the process of making all those things happen. They're gonna, uh, look at different cases. That might be the example cases. They're called bellwether cases. Uh, but Snap has since filed their appeal. Um, and in the meantime they filed amicus briefs from groups that are funded by big tech. Amicus briefs are these legal documents that get submitted to the court to say why this lawsuit is bad.

Amy Neville: (27:12)

Mm-hmm . And they're supposed to be bipartisan as if they don't, you know, have a stake in the game. But the reality is, the majority of these people that have filed the Amicus briefs are influenced by Big tech because they take big tech money. So, yeah. You know, we're so, we're in the waiting game. We're, we're waiting for this to happen. So it was, it's been very interesting. Uh, the judge in our case, judge rif has been very careful and his discussions in the courtroom and, and making sure that he is doing what is right. So I'm really grateful to him. But we're really just in the waiting game still on Okay. On whether or not, um, snap's going to be allowed that appeal.

Hillary Wilkinson: (27:52)

Okay. So, like I said, I, I talk to, I talk to a lot of parents who have lost children due to Snapchat. Mm-hmm . And my biggest advice that when I go out and give presentations is don't allow your kids to download this app. Mm-hmm . And I just, I, I implore you to the listeners, implore you to recognize that the fun filters, like the doggy ears and the rainbow tongue and all of this stuff, it's the same tactics that were used by big tobacco to lure a younger user base by flavoring vape cartridges, like to taste like cotton candy and naming them cute names like Sesame's Treat or bubblegum or something like that. It's, they, they start in a very playful manner and it turns dark quickly. Mm-hmm . And by quickly, like you said, 45 to 60 days, you've got kids who are ending up doing things that they never would've found themselves doing. Yep. So it's, it's the same, it's the same dark tactics that are used mm-hmm

Amy Neville: (29:02)

. It is. I mean, they, they, you know, everybody thinks it's a free app, that it's this free product that we put on our phone. But as soon as our kids, we, 'cause some of us adults use these things too, and our kids engage with these apps, we become the product. Yes. We're the data that's bought and sold all day, every day on these apps. I mean, snap has the snap streak, which is designed to get you to show up every single day. And when I talk to teens and I do these listening sessions with teens, I often hear like, well, it's fun at first, but then I get a little anxiety over it. Like, I get the notification, oh, my Snapchat's gonna end, and they've got this compulsion that they have to go do this. And that compulsion is what addiction feels like. Sure. And so it's driving

Hillary Wilkinson: (29:38)

That. 'cause it uses, yeah. It uses the same pathways in the brain. Mm-hmm . It's all dopamine fed. It's the pleasure pathway, pleasure, pain. It's, uh, it's the same pathways mm-hmm . That get used. So Yeah.

Amy Neville: (29:49)

And, and kids don't wanna lose their snaps streak, but Snap has since fixed that problem in that now you can pay 99 cents to get your snaps streak back. Which, you know, is that really, that is all to drive the bottom line that is all about money. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (30:03)

No, it's all to drive the bottom line. And Snap has also done, I, I don't wanna turn this into a talk about AI and bots, because that's another episode, but the whole ai, my AI friend feature mm-hmm . Where you cannot remove from the app mm-hmm unless you pay to have it removed. Yeah. It's, no, it is, it is, uh, it is paying for your freedom for things. Mm-hmm . Which in essence is not freedom at all. 

Amy Neville: (30:34)

Not at all. Not at all. Yeah. It's, it's, uh, it's amazing what they can get away with right now because there's no regulation. And as hard as we're trying for regulation and legislation to keep kids safe, you know, they've got billions and billions of dollars. They, they out money us, uh, in a very big way. And unfortunately that's, that's winning out right now. Mm-hmm . Uh, and, and so it's really scary. It's real. The future is very, very scary on these platforms without any regulation. I mean, we needed regulation for cars, right. We needed it for big tobacco. Alcohol is regulated. Any new consumer product that comes onto the market is faced with scrutiny. You know, if it was a defective seatbelt in the car, it's gonna get fixed. If the product doesn't work the way it's supposed to, it's gonna get fixed. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (31:22)

Even food, I mean, we just had a major organic carrot recall in California. Yes. Yeah. . So, you know, so yeah.

Amy Neville: (31:29)

Why do we let kids that really are designed for addiction and, and where a lot of harm happens to our children, why are we letting them get away with that? I don't understand.

Hillary Wilkinson: (31:40)

Me neither. So we have to take a short break, but when we come back, I'm going to ask Amy Neville for her healthy screen habit. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (32:24)

I'm speaking with Amy Neville from the Alexander Neville Foundation. Now, Amy, as you know, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask my guests for a healthy screen habit. And this is gonna be a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice in their own home. What's yours?

Amy Neville: (32:44)

So, you know, the, obviously don't get your kid, don't let your kids get started on these things. But if that, you know, train has already left the station, you gotta spend, um, five to 10 minutes a couple times a week looking through the recommended content that your kids are being pushed. Uh, if, if something looks harmful in there, uh, doesn't mean your kids search for it, it just means that's what the algorithm thinks they need to see. I mean, you're looking for diet pill advertisements, um, lingerie ads to teen girls. Like anything that you think is alarming, it probably is. And, and get in there. Set, set those, uh, settings to the highest security. Uh, make sure you have your kids' passwords. God forbid something should go wrong. You need to be able to get into that phone. I mean, those are just a couple of, of tips, but we, again, we could, I've got more. If anybody wants more , find me. I'll give you more

Hillary Wilkinson: (33:39)

Okay. Well, that's a perfect segue into finding a complete transcript of this show, as well as a link to the Alexander Neville Foundation website, plus links to the two documentaries, plus a link to that the DEA, uh, emoji code kind of form. Um, you can do that. You can access all of these things by visiting the show notes for this episode. You Do that by going to healthyscreenhabits.org. Click the podcast tab and scroll to find this episode. Amy, thank you so much for being here and for sharing Alex with all of us, and for your tireless efforts to keep kids safe.

Amy Neville: (34:31)

Thank you. And thank you for the work that you do.