Transforming Toddlerhood

Season 9, Episode 1: What's the Matter? How Baby and Toddler Brain Development is Affected by Screen Time

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Hillary Wilkinson: (00:02)

As humans, we are programmed to find large eyes, chubby cheeks and playful behavior appealing. And this means truly that there is nothing cuter than a toddler. So this stage of development is also partnered with this like, you know, discovery of independence and testing of cause and effect. And both of these things can lead to elements of frustration for toddler and caregiver, or parent and technology can compound this by layering in an extra hurdle for this power struggle. So if any of this sounds familiar, I have great news. I have a toddler expert here today to talk about all things toddlers and tech. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits. Devon Kuntzman,

Devon Kuntzman: (00:58)

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here today.

Hillary Wilkinson: (01:01)

Same! I, uh, I love, love this stage of human development and I feel like not enough people talk about those areas that are so hard. Devon, your specialty and focus is on this very, like, we're talking about this very specific age range and why, what brought you to this focus? Why did you choose to focus on toddlers specifically?

Devon Kuntzman: (01:35)

I love that question because the reason I decided to focus on toddler specifically is actually really, really personal for me because toddlerhood is oftentimes characterized as a period of time that parents just wanna fast forward through, right? Society tells us it's gonna be terrible, you're gonna have a threenager on your hands. So that messaging right there really makes us just want to hit the fast forward button, glide over it, and hope there's something better on the other side. But we can't do that. And the truth of it is, is that toddlerhood is a very critical developmental period because the first five years of a child's life really sets the foundation for the rest of their lives, especially when it comes to brain development. So it's a very critical developmental period, and of course, very challenging at the same time because it's the first time that our sense of control is truly being challenged as a parent because the whole point of toddlerhood is for your little one to become their very own person, uh, to develop a sense of self for the first time.

Devon Kuntzman: (02:47)

So when I started Transforming Toddlerhood, I noticed that there is lots of people talking about pregnancy infancy and children in general, but no one was talking about toddlerhood when we know how challenging it is. So I started Transferring Toddlerhood with the mission to dispel the myth that toddlerhood is terrible and truly empower parents and caregivers to overcome the challenges while nurturing their little ones' development and creating confidence in their parenting skills. Because toddlerhood, yes, it's challenging, but it's also a very magical time period, a time period full of firsts where you get to watch your child's first step, hear their first words, and really get to discover who they are as a person.

Hillary Wilkinson: (03:33)

I love it. I love all of it. Thank you so much for being the voice for those littles who can't speak that for themselves. And so, because this is healthy screen habits, I have to ask, you've talked about like developmentally as kids are growing, but we have this, this new layer of challenge within the realm of toddlerhood and basically human lifespan of, of how we're all negotiating and navigating screen time. But what do you find the greatest challenge that parents of toddlers face around screen time?

Devon Kuntzman: (04:15)

Ooh, it's hard to narrow it down to just one, because there are a lot of challenges, and I'm a toddler parent myself. Um, I would say the biggest challenge I see is that it's really hard to set healthy limits around screen time, because we're living in a world where everything is so dichotomous where you're either in one camp or the other camp and everyone is so divided. So it's either it's screens are fine, totally fine, just don't worry about it. Or it's like, oh, toddlers should never have a screen. And then parents find themselves in this place where they don't know what the best thing to do is. And then if they give their toddler a screen, they, um, feel judged, judge themselves sometimes get shamed by others. And so it's really, really challenging. And then the added layer on top of that is it's hard to navigate our own phone use, especially in front of our children. And so that's just a whole added layer on top of it. Not only are we trying to figure out correct limits for our child's screen use at this age, but also modeling those habits ourselves with our screen time.

Hillary Wilkinson: (05:35)

Yeah, I agree. I agree. I, I do not have toddlers. We are well past toddlers in this house, but modeling my own screen behaviors is something that I continually have to just check in on and see like, am I showing my relationship with technology the way I want to emulate it for my kids? You know? So absolutely. I'm currently, I'm currently involved in this like two week challenge actually with with another, uh, digital wellness person. And I'm finding myself really caught in the throes of, “Huh. There's some behaviors. I really don't, I'm really not appreciating about myself right now!”

Devon Kuntzman: (06:21)

I just set new limits for myself two days ago mm-hmm . Around my phone use because it's always evolving. Right, exactly. It's

Hillary Wilkinson: (06:29)

Always

Devon Kuntzman: (06:29)

Changing, always evolving. There's different seasons of, of the year and of life. And so I just think that not only are we trying to manage ourselves and our own screen time and what we're modeling to children, and especially in the toddler age, they're just watching our every move and learning from us because they're so reliant on us to get their, um, needs met. So mm-hmm . They're just so attuned to what we're doing. And then at the same time, we've gotta navigate, um, the tech world for children as well.

Hillary Wilkinson: (06:59)

Yeah. Yeah. So I had an amazing opportunity to speak with Dr. John Hutton, who's the researcher who's done extensive work studying the effects of screen time overuse and the very young in regards to the thinning of white matter within the brain. I'll link that episode in these show notes if anybody else wants to go back and listen to that. But since you are the, the expert of toddlerhood, I was wondering if you have any recommendations of organizations or is there any research that you can recommend for listeners who want to know more about the effects of tech overuse and the, the very young?

Devon Kuntzman: (07:45)

Absolutely. I mean, there is a lot of research out there. So even when you just go to Google Scholar and you start typing in, um, you know, screen time toddlers, children, preschoolers, you start to get a lot of, uh, research comes up. And what we start to see around some of this research is that there are potential risks around consuming too much tech. And I think it might be supportive to also just maybe talk about, well, what is too much? 'cause there might be a parent or caregiver listening be like, okay, well, like, how much is too much? How do you know? First of all, there's the guidelines written by the, um, American Academy of Pediatrics that, um, says no screen time under 18 months, um, ideally two years unless it's video chatting, because video chatting, while it is screen time, there's research around that, that shows us that there can be some benefits for children, um, engaging and video chatting with family members.

Devon Kuntzman: (08:50)

Um, and then from, um, two to five years, an hour of screen time a day, um, during the week and sometimes, um, a bit more on the weekends up to three hours. But that's only part of the story. The other part of the story is looking at your child and the type of impact screens might be having on your child. And sometimes that's harder to notice because it's not always just like, okay, my child's having screen time or just had some screen time. Okay, now what's the impact? Let's watch for 30 minutes. Sometimes the impact is cumulative. Um, so you might not notice the impact of screen time, but then after a few months you might be like, wow, my child is just acting completely different than he was before. Maybe, um, just bouncing off the walls more, having more meltdowns and power struggles. Um, unable to, uh, think about other things, um, besides screen time, always asking when the next show is, when the next show is things that like that.

Devon Kuntzman: (09:48)

So it's so important to know, okay, yes, here are the guidelines that are based on the science, but also here's my specific unique child and here's what I see in them and their needs. Because we have research that shows that potential risk of, um, over consumption of screens can disrupt sleep mm-hmm . And can create more meltdowns and power struggles and can, um, disrupt attention span. So there's a lot of things like this that, uh, might even, um, impact or delay language development and decrease emotional wellbeing. So there's a lot of potential risk of overconsumption, but I hate to say just follow a blind like guideline. We also have to take into account who is our child as a unique individual.

Hillary Wilkinson: (10:41)

Yeah. Yeah. So when we come back, let's talk a little bit more about what parents can do if they wanna reduce power struggles and tantrums around tech. 

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I'm speaking with Devon Kuntzman, founder of Transforming Toddlerhood, whose mission is to empower toddler parents to overcome behavioral challenges, nurture their child's development, and create confidence in their parenting skills. Sounds like the triple, triple win there, . Okay. This mission of empowerment, I think, really resonates with me because it's so aligned with our Healthy Screen Habits mission, which is to educate and empower families to create their own healthiest screen habits while maintaining tech as a tool, never a replacement for human connection. So I feel like a lot of what we do holds hands, andI love the focus on education because I really do believe that education leads to empowerment. When you know your why, then you can stand firmly in your how.

Hillary Wilkinson: (14:00)

It's kind of this marriage of desire to outcome. So we often have struggles around technology with our kids. 'cause it's like we, we were talking about before the break, a lot of times, you know, childhood by nature is continually changing. And oftentimes, we don't have enough time to evaluate what's happening, or something catches us unprepared. And I know that for my own self, it's like the kids are kinda waiting in the wings just ready to ask, like for a show or YouTube or online game, when they see you like distracted or in a state of stress. And then getting them off of tech can be equally challenging. So this is where Devon, we need your guidance. How, how do you recommend we set limits to reduce these power struggles and tantrums around technology? 

Devon Kuntzman: (14:50)

Absolutely. I mean, this is such a big question, and I kind of like to think of it in two parts. The first part, which is creating a plan. And then the second part is, okay, how do you execute the plan or what happens when it goes sideways? So , so the first part with creating a plan, I kind of think about this plan having four parts. So the first is, when, when will screens be used in our home, right? So you have to decide, am I giving my child screen time on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, on a monthly basis, or is this something we just kind of use sporadically as a tool, um, in certain moments. Something like, okay, if we're on a car ride over an hour, or we're traveling on an airplane, or we're at a restaurant for over an hour or something like this.

Devon Kuntzman: (15:41)

So you have to kind of decide when and when you have decided when you wanna communicate this to your child. So children have the expectations set for them because we want to make it predictable. Even if you use screen time sporadically, it can still be predictable. If you're using screen time in certain instances or circumstances, that part is predictable. But generally, um, we wanna look at, okay, when we're creating the, when we generally wanna have it be predictable versus reactive, because what we know from toddlers is that toddlers need, um, predictability. Predictability creates a sense of safety. It also, when things are predictable, more often than not, it's going to happen in a certain way. There's going to be a lot less pushback. When things are unpredictable, that's where you're gonna be getting lots of power struggles. So, um, it's important to really decide, okay, when will my child have screen time?

Devon Kuntzman: (16:43)

And another tip around the when is, make sure it ends one to two hours before sleep, so it does not disrupt your child's sleep. Then the second part is where, so that means more so like, okay, what type of device is my child going to use? Are they going to use, um, a tv, an iPad, or a phone? If I had to rank it, I would say TV is best. It's fixed to the wall, your child's far back from it and you are in control of it. Um, an iPad, um, would probably be my second, um, or tablet would be my second choice. Sitting on a table, not held in a child's lap, um, it's smaller, the child has to be closer to it. Um, and then third, I would say phone. Because when we're using a phone for screen time, then it makes it more likely that we're going to be reactive for screen time because we can just whip it out of our pocket and give it to our child.

Devon Kuntzman: (17:33)

So it's harder to stay consistent with the limits that you set, um, when your child knows it could be available and when, you know it could be available when the going gets tough. Uh, the third part I would say is the what. So have a list of approved shows. So I would recommend, if possible, um, previewing at least one episode of a show or series, um, before, um, before letting your child watch that. So you know that this show meets your standards for what, um, your child's going to be watching. And not all shows for children are created equally. They, um, some are really made to draw your child in and make it hard for them to let go of it. And a lot of times there's an opportunity to think outside the box. So if you're gonna show your child a show, perhaps it's a show about baby animals in the wild.

Devon Kuntzman: (18:27)

Maybe it's a webcam that's watching like a bird's nest or like a watering hole, um, of animals somewhere, um, in Africa or something like that. You know, there's so many things out there, um, that could kind of be outside the box than just thinking of like your typical, um, show for kids. And then the third, uh, the fourth is connection. So create opportunities for co-viewing or, and or have discuss discussions about what your child watches, which basically means the research shows that if you co view with the child, um, it's better for them. They get more from what happened, it's easier for them to transition away from the show. It helps them understand what they're watching and they get more out of it, or at least discuss with your child about what they watched. So that's what I have for creating a plan. Then, okay, what are we going to do if your child is watching a show? And then they're like, but just one more, but just one more. My child in our house. My husband's French. And so, um, my child speaks French as well, and he's always like, uh, uh, which means one. So first he says one in English, and then he does it in French, like thinking maybe, um, , maybe the cha, it'll change, you know, he just says it in the other language. Anyways, it's funny,

Hillary Wilkinson: (19:48)

Which, which kind of leads you to believe, what else am I being , right? What else am I being “bilingualled” On that I'm not sure, right? 

Devon Kuntzman: (19:53)

Because he's just like, uh, uh, it puts this little figure up. I'm like, oh, you think this is gonna change the outcome here? This is cute, um, . But anyways, so what you wanna do is, um, really talk to your child beforehand. So you wanna make it clear, okay, we're going to watch one show, or I've set this timer and have it be a visual timeframe. What goes off, it's done. But we wanna give them something concrete, not just say, oh, in 10 minutes, in five minutes, because honestly, they don't know what that means, right? So there's gonna be more pushbacks, it's gonna feel very unpredictable. Um, then I would pause the, pause the show or whatever they're watching five minutes before and say, okay, we're almost at the end. So now you're starting to pull your child back from like, being engrossed in what they're watching back to the present moment. Mm-hmm. Then, um, maybe in that last,

Hillary Wilkinson: (20:47)

Like, so you could like set a timer for yourself to know like, ooh, five minutes, I gotta go. And like, just pause the show and let them know when this wraps up. You're just kind of like, yep. Reminding and reviewing the, uh, rules that are in place.

Devon Kuntzman: (21:01)

Yes. And it's already creating like the first interruption, so it's not so brutal. Mm-hmm . When, whenever we're going to like, have the big interruption of turning it off, right? . So then from there, if you, in that last five minutes, are able to co-watch with your child, that can be a great time because now you're, um, watching it with them. You could discuss what's happening while you're watching, which is anchoring them more in the present moment, which again, is going to soften that transition. Um, and then when it's over, oftentimes we can see if we can give our child a sense of control, right? Because toddlers are hardwired to look for a sense of control because they're trying to become their own person. So in that process, they're exerting their will and they're looking to have a sense of power control, but they can't control how much, um, TV they're going to watch or how much, um, screen time they're going to consume.

Devon Kuntzman: (21:56)

But we can give them a sense of control of saying, do you wanna turn it off, or do you want me to? Something like that. Now, what happens when your toddler says no or just, you know, starts flipping out, which don't be alarmed if you set a limit and your toddler gets upset. Because when you set a limit, you have three jobs and your child has three jobs, it's your job to set the limit. It's your child's job to test it. Mm-hmm . It's your job to follow through on the limit. And it's your child's job to have a reaction when they realize that limit is going to stick, and it's your job to support your child with their big feelings and emotions, and it's your your child's job to accept the limit. That means you can't force your child to be happy or to feel a certain way.

Devon Kuntzman: (22:43)

When you set a limit, it's up to them to work through their emotions and accept it. It's up to you to support them in working through their emotions. So what does this mean in practice? Well, what it means is that if your child's upset and having a hard time, you might say, “I know it's really hard to turn off Bluey. Mm-hmm . You really, really, really love Bluey.” And then you stop mm-hmm . You pause, you let it sink in. Oftentimes we're so quick, so we wanna just get through it and, you know, have the emotions change because it's uncomfortable to sit with our child's negative, you know, or uncomfortable emotions. And so, but what we really need to do here is pause, because connection can work wonders and helping a child feel seen and heard, and ultimately to influence them and create cooperation. But we've gotta give it space. We've gotta give our child space to feel connected to us. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (23:40)

I love that you're, you're validating those feelings. You're like, oh, this is really hard. Yes. Yeah. I can see this is really hard. And you're just, you're just mirroring for them. You don't have to understand the why, but you can say, “Oh, I can see you're so sad.” Yeah. And, and don't make it about you. Don't make it about, oh, it makes me sad when you're sad. You know, I, you, you need to not get enmeshed in that

Devon Kuntzman: (24:08)

. Right? Yes. It's about really just being this neutral observer mm-hmm . To really observe and describe what's happening. You don't wanna turn it off validating your child. It's hard to turn it off. I know. And just really hold the space. And I've seen magic happen in these moments where after five minutes, six minutes, something like that of really holding the space, the child finally just goes, okay, and turns it off. But oftentimes that five minutes can feel like 50 minutes, and we don't actually wait enough time for the child to work through their emotions. Mm

Hillary Wilkinson: (24:44)

Mm Yeah. Yeah. I can see also how that, um, co-viewing, even for the last five minutes of this show, can also help you with this concept that we call bridging, which means bridging the time online to the time offline. So say you are doing, like, you, um, beautifully gave the idea of, you know, an, uh, a live webcam or something, say we're watching the Mama eagle, you know? Yes. And you can say, “oh, come on baby Eagles, we're gonna go fly to, you know, go set the table” or whatever. And you can use that as a playful transition. But, but, but you wouldn't know what to use as that like, spark of bridging unless you had been involved in that last five minutes. So Yeah.

Devon Kuntzman: (25:35)

Yes. There's so many gifts that, that last five minutes can really give you, um, you know, we often think we're too busy and sometimes we might not be able to. But when we're able to, there's a lot of gifts inside it because it helps us meet our child where they're at, and when we meet a child where they're at versus trying to drag them over to where we want to be, what I always like to say is that when we walk across the bridge, say, say, I always like to envision you're on one side of like the stream, your child's on the other side, there's a bridge. And if we are standing on our side and like demanding they come over, we're gonna get a lot of pushback. Or we might go to their side of the bridge and then feel like we're just like pulling them over the bridge.

Devon Kuntzman: (26:15)

What they really need us to do is come over there, stop, be hand in hand with them and walk them over the bridge. And the way we do that is through connection, through validation, through playfulness and co viewing that last five minutes allows us to really meet them where they're at and me and mesh them ourselves in their world. So then we can carry that through and literally walk over that bridge to where we want our child to be, where we want them to go. And sometimes it's not gonna work out so beautifully, right? Because if this is, if you're new to setting this limit, your child's gonna test this limit several times.

Hillary Wilkinson: (26:53)

But like you said, that's their job. Like Yeah. It's their job. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I love that, that distinction of yeah, there, it's your job to set the limit. It's their job to test it. They're not testing you, they're just making, I mean, they're all about object permanence. Is it gonna be the same in each situation? So, yeah.

Devon Kuntzman: (27:13)

Yeah. And when it's a new limit, it's really, really hard for them to know. So know that there might be times where you have to say, I see you're having trouble turning it off. I'm going to turn it off this time. You can try next time. Mm-hmm . And that might just be it. And they might fall to pieces and might have a lot of tears, and you might say, then they might say, oh, no, I'm ready. So you might turn it back on and then let them push the button, you know, whatever you think you need to do for your child in that moment. But knowing that the more predictable that this limit becomes, the less they're going to push back. For sure. But if your child continues to push back, this can be a signal that maybe your child needs to reduce or take a break from screen time. That could be one of the signals.

Hillary Wilkinson: (27:54)

Yeah. Yeah. That's that, that, that, uh, evaluation component that you talked about in the first part. So I, I feel like I have a unique opportunity to ask you about this. As, uh, an elementary educator, one of the things that, you know, all teachers encourage again and again is reading aloud to kids. And it is truly one of the most enriching things you can do as a parent. It's shown to build attention span, empathy creates connection, as well as, you know, enforce all those wonderful pre-reading skills that have basic book knowledge and vocabulary building. And all of that being said, there are apps that have picture books online that will do, I'm using air quotes, read alouds, , and, and yes, they are reading the words aloud. There is a voice, but, um, I think my bias is showing through . So I'm wondering as, as the screen habit lady, my bias is showing, but, but what, as the toddler lady, what, what is your take on these types of apps?

Devon Kuntzman: (29:05)

Sure. I mean, and it's, it's not only just my take. I think if we just look at the research overall, that what the research finds is that a device can't replace an adult, right? Mm-hmm . And that children learn best from adults. We do know that can there be learning from devices in certain instances? Sure. But it's not as good and will never be like learning from an adult. So I personally haven't used one of these apps because I personally wouldn't use one of these apps, um, in my family. So what I would say is that for families that want their child to be exposed to more books, but maybe, you know, already spent an hour reading and can't spend any more time reading, or you even spent five minutes reading, you can't spend any more time reading at that moment, then this is where, um, podcasts, storytelling podcasts for kids can be great.

Devon Kuntzman: (29:57)

Different audio players with that read books aloud can be great. And so I would focus more on the audio component. And then what's so great about this is your child's listening, but then they're likely also doing, so they might be maybe building something with some blocks or playing with a, a lovey or, or a baby doll or something like this while listening. So they're going to be further integrating what they're hearing as they're moving. And so that's, that's what I would personally prefer. But in the end, I think the bottom line is a device can't replace an adult.

Hillary Wilkinson: (30:34)

Yeah. Yeah. So we have to take a short break, but when we come back, I'm going to ask Devon for her healthy screen habit.

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I'm speaking with Devon Kuntzman, founder of Transforming Toddlerhood, a website that allows you to be the parent you envision. She does this by teaching positive, developmentally appropriate parenting tools that work with your child's development. Devon, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask for a healthy screen habit. And this is going to be a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice in their own home. What's yours?

Devon Kuntzman: (31:44)

Well, my tip is evaluate shows, be sure they're developmentally appropriate for your child. So by developmentally appropriate, what do I mean? Well, fast pace shows overstimulate the reward pathways in the brain and can make screen time more addictive for your child. Whereas a slower pace with minimal screen transitions can create less arousal in the brain and be less stimulating and less addictive. So when you are looking to choose a show, an app, whatever, for your child, what you wanna look for is low stimulation with developmentally appropriate content models, positive behavior models, positive dialogue, and ideally pre-watched by an adult. So some characteristics of less stimulating shows are slow paced, very few screen transitions, less intense colors, relaxing or soothing music, characters who talk instead of yell and few to no sound effects.

Hillary Wilkinson: (33:08)

I love that because so oftentimes when you're, looking at recommendations for safe kid programming or desired kid pro programming, they talk about slow tech versus fast tech. And to know exactly what these characteristics of slow tech are. I thank you very much for outlining that. As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show as well as a link to transforming toddlerhood. And that link to the previous episode that I talked about with John Hutton visiting by visiting the show notes for this episode. You're gonna do this by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button and find this episode. Devon, thank you so much for being here today and working so hard to empower all parents during the toddlerhood years.

Devon Kuntzman: (34:09)

Thank you so much. It's really a pleasure.