For more info: SDPF's Safety Net Initiative

CA's Cyberbullying Law

Hillary Wilkinson: (00:11)

My guest today is an actor and a voiceover artist. She's also the program manager and a presenter for Safety Net.  Now, Safety Net Smart Cyber Choices is a collaborative program of the San Diego Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force and the San Diego Police Foundation. It's designed to help kids, parents, educators, concerned adults learn how to keep kids safe online. And as we're gearing up for another school year, I am positive so many of us are looking for programs and ways to help teach digital skills to our children. And coming at it kind of from this lens of legality, I, I wanted to explore a little more, um, and safety, of course. So I'm very happy to be educated on this area. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits, Wendy Wadell.

Wendy Waddell: (01:17)

Thank you, Hillary. I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Hillary Wilkinson: (01:21)

Wendy, What drove you into this digital wellness space?

Wendy Waddell: (01:28)

You know, it's funny because this is not something I ever saw being a part of my, my career, my future. Um, I've always been, like you mentioned, I've been in the arts pretty much my whole life. I've been an actor. Um, and that's what I got my degree in in college was, was acting. But I've also had a passion for education.

Hillary Wilkinson: (05:39)

Right. And I like the focus on injury prevention. That Safety Net provides your focus to help others learn to navigate their online life safely before like the danger. Right. I'm sure you have data that backs why this is necessary, . And, um, knowing all of that, what are areas that you find are the biggest hot spots of injury for our kids today? Is it gaining, is it social media? Is it texting? What…?

Wendy Waddell: (06:19)

All of the above? Yes. So I wish I could say that there's one that's more dangerous than others. And I guess if I, if you held my feet to the fire and said, which one is the most dangerous? I would have to say it's a straight up tie between gaming and social media. But let's face it, gaming is a form of social media, so you can kind of lump them all together. Um, yeah. So, uh, particularly when we were in quarantine, going back to that four years ago when our kids were at home. And their only outlet, well, for a large majority of our children, their only outlet was to be social, uh, with their friends and other family members through the internet. Uh, predators also took full advantage of the fact that our kids were online, uh, even more than they had ever been.

Wendy Waddell: (07:05)

So what will often happen is our kids will be communicating with their friends on a social media app. Let's just say for example, Snapchat. It's a very, very popular app with our kids. They might be messaging with their friends, or they're putting up what are called snaps or stories and taking photos of themselves or videos of themselves. Um, and if they don't have strong privacy protection on their, on their accounts, or if they are just posting nonstop, a lot of times what will happen is these predators are out trolling on these apps where they know our kids are, and they're looking for kids that are, that are posting a lot, or that do seem to have, uh, maybe some issues with self-esteem or maybe some issues with, sharing so much of their lives in their posts, almost like an online diary.

Wendy Waddell: (07:58)

Mm-Hmm. And these predators will hone in on that. A lot of times what they will do is they will present themselves as a peer. Mm-Hmm. . So what I mean by that is they will create a fake account where if, you know, I'm a, I'm a 14-year-old girl and I'm out there on Snapchat posting, I might receive a friend request or a comment from a poster who appears to be a 14-year-old boy who is now reaching out to me, uh, using under the guise of, I think you're cute, I think you're smart, I think you're funny. I wanna get to know you better. And that is the “in” for the predator. That is how they will lure our children, is by presenting themselves as a peer. Um, and so they will, I don't know if you've ever heard the term slide into their dms Mm-Hmm. they will often slide into the dms, send friend requests, and a lot of our children are just so hungry for that attention and that validation that it's really not that difficult for these predators to then, uh, initiate these relationships, these conversations, and learn all of these personal and private pieces of information about our children.

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:33)

if you have somebody whose kind of tendency is to overshare online anyways. Exactly. They're probably, it's, it's a, it's an easy string….

Wendy Waddell: (09:45)

An easy, it's an easy road. Yeah. Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:47)

What about gaming?

Wendy Waddell: (09:51)

Well, and I just, just to, to, uh, round it out and talk about gaming as social media. Everybody gets confused when I say that, but technically, gaming is a form of social media. You are still socializing online. You're just going about it in a, in a slightly different way. You're not necessarily posting selfies or videos, but you're interacting online and you're using the game as the outlet for it. So gaming sites have chat rooms or have the ability to game with people we don't know. And, uh, a lot of times that will be another way that a predator will get to our kid. They will present as another kid playing this game, and they will start up conversations. And before you know it, now, the, the, the child views this predator as a friend. This is one of the biggest things I think that, uh, the Internet Crimes Against Children task force, or ICAC as we call them. One of the biggest things they, they have said to me over the years is that when it comes to our children, they have, there's no difference between the online world and the real world. Right. As, as soon as those conversations begin, as soon as that predator makes contact with our child and starts that conversation and puts our child at ease in the child's mind, we're now friends. You know, you can't be a stranger anymore. We've been chatting. Right. So

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:12)

Frighten and there's a big mis frighten misnomer. Frighten, yeah. Even on the platforms, I, uh, the use of the term friends rather than just followers or Yeah. Rather than, I mean, they're, but our kids are at developmental ages and stages where they are so literal. It's you, you are, you're called a friend, therefore you are a friend, so, exactly.

Wendy Waddell: (11:34)

Yeah. Exactly. And do

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:36)

You have, um, numbers surrounding, um, like, like gaming specific interactions versus social media platforms? Or do you have any of those?

Wendy Waddell: (11:47)

We don't really have that teased out in terms of which platform is garnering more danger than another one. But what I can tell you, if this gives you any kind of idea of why we need to be educating our, our parents and our children on safe practices online, since the pandemic, we have seen a 323% increase, 323% increase in online grooming and enticement with our children.

Hillary Wilkinson: (12:17)

Wow.

Wendy Waddell: (12:18)

Okay. I, I mean, let that sink in. That's, that's it. It's all, it's, it's, it's hard to really wrap our brains around that large a number. Right. So what that tells us is in, that's, in the years since we've come out of quarantine, But specifically since quarantine was lifted and our children went back to school in person and were able to start interacting again with their peers in person, what that number tells us is their online activities and their online presence has not gone down. Hmm. And creditors recognize that and see that, that, uh, quarantine leveled the playing field for them made it so much easier. Our kids were sitting ducks, there's just no other way to say it. Our kids were desperate for that interaction with somebody. And since then, we have not seen our kids back off from their online presences. If anything, quarantine got them more and more addicted, and they went further and further down the rabbit hole.

Hillary Wilkinson: (13:33)

Yeah. So, next, let's talk about different aspects of internet safety. And I'll be asking about that after this short break.

Ad Break:  HSH Workbook

Hillary Wilkinson: (13:50)

I'm speaking with Wendy Waddell. She is the program manager at Safety Net Smart Cyber Choices. This is a program whose goal is to keep kids safe online. Wendy, what do you find is something that surprises kids about the legal ramifications of their online life? I feel like having the close connection with the Police Foundation, you get all of those kind of details rather than, like, at healthy screen habits, we focus on family relationships, but you kind of get some harder facts and stats. So,

Wendy Waddell: (14:56)

Right. We're more the black and white, uh, version of what you guys teach. Um, we're all about you do this and this is the consequence. So I think one of the biggest surprises for kids is the, the minimum age for having a social media account, which is 13. And a lot of kids don't know that. A lot of parents don't know that. So we're seeing, you know, 10, 11-year-old kids getting Instagram accounts, getting Snapchat accounts, even their parents sometimes creating these accounts for them. Um, and the reason the minimum age is 13, is that our children are protected by a set of laws, uh, that, that keeps them protected until the age of 13. What that means is their personal information, what they're doing online, can't be shared and monitored the way our stuff gets monitored and looked at. And you, you, you are familiar with algorithms.

Wendy Waddell: (15:54)

Maybe you're searching for something on Amazon like bedsheets, and then you go on Facebook and all of a sudden a bunch of bedsheet ads pop up on your Facebook feed. It's that kind of thing. If a child is under the age of 13, that information cannot be shared or, or studied or, or looked at. But if a kid signs up for a social media account before they turn 13, technically they've broken the law. So those privacy laws don't apply to them anymore. So their privacy is gone. It's just flat out gone. And what our parents need to understand as well is when they're posting about their kids, because we are the adults, if we share something about our child, even if that child is under the age of 13, then that information is also out there to be, uh, to be culled and shared and taken and potentially stolen. So I think that shocks a lot of kids.

Hillary Wilkinson: (17:01)

Can you talk about, um, the, the, there's a lot of swirl around kids sending nudes and what are the legal ramifications of them sending nudes of themself? Can you talk about that a little bit?

Wendy Waddell: (17:16)

Sure. So another big surprise I think to our kids is that they themselves are breaking the law. If they send an inappropriate, we use the term inappropriate, but I will use your terminology, a nude picture of themselves. If a minor, uh, sends a nude photo of themselves to anybody, it doesn't matter if it's another minor or an adult, then the minor who created the content can be charged with, um, production and distribution of child pornography. This is a felony, and this has become a federal law because it has become such an issue for a, for a long time, the law was different from state to state, depending upon your age and depending upon who you were interacting with. But now it's become a blanket thing across the country, which I'm grateful for. And I think it should be this stringent, because what our children don't realize is once that content is out there, there is no getting it back.

Wendy Waddell: (18:19)

So not only are you facing the legal ramifications of being arrested and tried under felony charges of production, distribution, solicitation, uh, uh, possession of child pornography, you're also facing the reality that those images or videos can be circulated forever. And even when you think it's died down and it's not going to resurface, you never know it could pop up and you are re-victimized all over again. But yes, the legal side of it is a 12-year-old could be arrested and charged with creation of child pornography if they decide to take a nude video or photo of themselves.

Hillary Wilkinson: (18:59)

Even a nude selfie.

Wendy Waddell: (19:01)

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because you are a minor taking a picture of a minor. Sure, sure. And, and, and sometimes that's a lot of times that's hard for those developing brains to, to grasp, but, uh, 

Hillary Wilkinson: (19:13)

It's hard for my grownup brain to grasp . So I completely understand.

Wendy Waddell: (19:18)

Yeah. It's, it's, um, the adults are going to face a lot more of the consequences than a child is because the adults do know better. And because legally they are not, uh, their, their interaction with children is not meant to be on a sexual level, but, um, the kids can face just as much trouble as the adults. Mm-Hmm.

Hillary Wilkinson: (19:40)

Let's talk about hackers and scams. Sure. Are there, are there trends that you see on the upswing?

Wendy Waddell: (19:49)

Um, you know, it's, it there things are kind of cyclical. Mm-Hmm. We will see scams that will come around and around, um, over and over again. The biggest one with kids, um, and it's kind of one that never really goes away. So we have to constantly keep reminding them are the idea that they'll get freebies for games that they're playing. Um, so for example, if a kid is playing Roblox, if you click on this link here, or you like this post here, you can get free what are called Robucks, which enable them to play different levels or have longer shelf life with their, with their characters or what have you. Um, and what that can often lead to is accounts being hacked, information being stolen, money being stolen, whatever the case may be. That's what we see with, uh, primarily elementary school and some middle school.

Wendy Waddell: (20:44)

What we see with some of our older kids, high school level and beyond, is now they're consumers, right? So a lot of our older kids have the opportunity to shop and purchase items online. So they will often get scammed by, and this happens a lot on Instagram. Uh, somebody will post something like, I have these Gucci shoes, or this Chanel bag. Um, normally this would be $2,000, but you can get it for $200. And what can often happen is the kid pays this $200, they either don't get the item because now that money's just gone, or they get the item. And clearly it's not legit. Um, so that's what we see with, with our older kids, with adults, it's a lot of the same kind of things of being careful about, um, clicking on links that they get in emails or “somebody's gotten into your account and it's been hacked!”

Wendy Waddell: (21:46)

And, you know, uh, it's so much of this, what we teach the children and, and the parents alike, is doing your due diligence is not letting your emotions take over. Um, fear, anger, excitement. Those are the three emotions that hackers and scammers play on the most, because they are the emotions that make you react the most quickly. Mm-Hmm. . So if we don't allow the emotions to take over, and we just logically do our due diligence of Googling to make sure this is legit, calling a phone number on the back of a credit card, or calling a number from the Better Business Bureau we'll see a lot more of these, um, scams and hacks going down. Well,

Hillary Wilkinson: (22:25)

That's, that's good advice. So if you do see something Yeah. That triggers that like, “Oh my gosh!” reaction. Give yourself a, a five minute period to

Wendy Waddell: (22:34)

Absolutely think,

Hillary Wilkinson: (22:34)

To think about, like, just walk away, close it out, and then just, you know, talk to a trusted resource, .

Wendy Waddell: (22:41)

Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Fact checking is huge, and we don't do enough of it.

Hillary Wilkinson: (22:45)

Yeah. Are there any platforms that you tell kids or people just to straight up avoid?

Wendy Waddell: (22:53)

I hate Snapchat with every fiber of my being. I just think it is, it, it, it, it came about in 2011. So we are, you know, well into it. And we have an entire generation of kids that don't know life before Snapchat. The danger that Snapchat has presented is the idea is the conceit that I can post something on Snapchat or send something on Snapchat and it will disappear after a period of time. So what we're seeing on that app in particular, there's a lot of the sexting and, and nude photo sharing and whatnot that we were just talking about happening on that app. Or kids are posting illegal activities. They're engaging in, whether that's drug and alcohol use, fighting. We see a lot of the kids that will video, other kids fighting on campus and they upload it to Snapchat. It's ridiculous. So, petty crimes, drug and alcohol use sexting.

Wendy Waddell: (23:48)

A lot of that is taking place on Snapchat because our children are thinking, well, I will post this for my friends and my followers, um, but it will disappear before my parents see it, or before law enforcement sees it. And the fact of the matter is, the biggest message I try to convey to kids is when you put something on the internet, it is there forever. Nothing ever disappears, including what you put on Snapchat. It may disappear from your device. It does not disappear from Snapchat's server. And we can have things screenshotted through the Snapchat app, which if that happens, Snapchat notifies you. But the bigger danger is somebody will post something on Snapchat, and then the person who is viewing that post might take a secondary phone or tablet or camera and take a photo or recording of it with an outside device, and the person who posted it has no idea it was saved. So all of this illegal and inappropriate stuff is being saved more and more and being utilized as leverage. Mm-Hmm. , we're seeing a lot more of blackmailing and, and extortion type stuff happening mostly between peers because of, uh, stuff they're posting that they shouldn't be doing. Hmm.

Hillary Wilkinson: (25:03)

So talking about this, like moving into kind of social media platforms, parents are often concerned about, uh, the thing I hear about is I wanna respect my child's privacy. I wouldn't read their diary. Yeah. Do parents need to monitor or limit their kids' online activities?

Wendy Waddell: (25:28)

Oh, yes. Yes. And I cannot stress enough that this is not a journal or a diary. A diary is a physical item that your child can write down in and put it somewhere else. This is, the whole world has access to these devices that our kids are on. So not only do we need to be monitoring what they're doing, we need to be physically taking those devices under our watchful eye at the end of the day. So the first thing I always recommend have accounts on all the social media apps where your kids are active. Does it mean, does it mean that your kids are going to all of a sudden be angels and not do inappropriate? No, they're gonna try to get away with stuff, their kids, but if you have a presence, they're less likely to try to do inappropriate things on those particular apps.

Wendy Waddell: (26:23)

And it sends the message to the kid, “Listen, I care about what you're interested in.” That is huge, that sense of solidarity that a child feels with their parents, because, oh, my mom actually thinks Instagram and Snapchat are kind of cool, so therefore I feel like I can talk to her and interact with her on that app. So that's, that's the first step, is having that presence on those apps where your kids are, they live there, there's no getting around it. Secondly, like I said, all devices, all electronic devices should be surrendered to parents at the end of the day. Studies have shown that the majority of the inappropriate and bad behavior that our kids engage in is happening behind closed doors, at night, unsupervised. Mm-Hmm. . So as parents, I know this whole idea, we don't, I don't wanna infringe upon their privacy. You gotta get rid of that idea, because the reality is, if you're child does something illegal or inappropriate on a device, you stand to get in just as much trouble as your child because it's your name on the contract, and you are the one paying the bill. So look at it as protecting yourself just as much as you're protecting your child. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (27:34)

And I think it kind of helps to add that into the conversation with our kids, because it invites this kind of like third source at which you can point the finger and say, “I, I have to do this because”, and Sure. You know, legally. And so it kind of, it takes the onus of course. I mean, you have the onus as the parent, but you've got an enforcer there that you can lean on. Absolutely, I like that. 

Wendy Waddell: (28:03)

You have an out, you have an out law enforcement says, I gotta check your, your phone, I gotta check your tablet, your laptop, whatever the case may be. And most kids have multiple devices, so it can get really, really tricky. And kids are smart. You take the phone, but you leave the, the tablet, they're gonna figure out a way to get online. You take the tablet and the phone, but you leave the laptop or you leave the game boy. Or you, you know, there are so many different ways that our kids can get online. We have to be really, really mindful of all of them. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:32)

Right. I like your emphasis on all devices, not just

Wendy Waddell: (28:35)

Yeah. All devices, not just the phone. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:36)

Right.

Wendy Waddell: (28:36)

Yep.

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:37)

Yeah. So what do I do if my kid is, um, experiencing cyberbullying or like vibes a a creepy interaction online?

Wendy Waddell: (28:49)

So, um, the, the first, first thing I tell parents is stay calm. Um, don't rush to the reaction of, um, you're, you're gonna have to delete your accounts. I don't want you online anymore, because let's face it, it's not realistic. And the more we try to push our kids into deleting these apps and deleting these accounts, the more likely they are to do it in secret and create secondary, more dangerous accounts. So first and foremost, stay calm and level headed. Secondly, be a safe place for your child. Don't, don't become accusatory or, or blaming or shaming in any way. Let your child know. Okay. I want to talk to you about what it is that you're experiencing with this individual, whether it's a cyberbully attack, or whether it is a predator that has now found a way into your child's life. Um, the more we can be open, non-judgmental, and safe for our children, the more likely they are to come and talk to us about it.

Wendy Waddell: (29:57)

If we are dealing with something like a cyber bullying issue, cyber bullying is really tricky because it's the most under-reported, um, issue online more so than predatory behavior. Kids know how to recognize a predator. And once you explain to them, these are the red flags, this is what you need to look out for, this is what you need to be careful about. They're not necessarily shy about, uh, reporting that to an adult. Cyber bullying is different because most of the time cyber bullying is going to be happening from somebody they know in real life too, whether it's another student or a friend. And they don't wanna be a tattletale. They don't wanna be the kid that's gonna rat out this other kid and potentially make things worse. So cyber bullying is very, very tricky to report and to get our kids to talk about. Um, but what I can say is, here in the state of California, if anybody interferes with a child's ability to get an education, they've broken the law because every child in the state of California is entitled to a free education.

Wendy Waddell: (30:57)

So what that means in terms of cyber bullying is if somebody, uh, whether that's another child at your, at your kids' school or, or anybody has interfered with your kids, uh, sleep schedule, so they're not sleeping as well, doing homework, participating in activities at school, um, interacting with other people while they are at school. Um, the law has been broken because your child has every right to feel safe and, um, respected when they attend school. So you can use that to your advantage. If you find that somebody at, let's say a peer at your kid's school has been cyber bullying your child, you can go to the administration with that loss saying, here's what's happening. My kid now no longer wants to play sports, or no longer wants to be in band because this child has now made, this person has now made my kid feel uncomfortable and scared, um, and, and fearful that something's going to happen offline. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (32:02)

Where do, yeah, where, where would people go to find the wording of that law if they felt like they needed to enforce this?

Wendy Waddell: (32:10)

I think, uh, it's, I have that somewhere. I don't remember off the top of my head. Okay. Um, but you can Google it. You can Google California state cyber bullying laws, and I believe it takes you to, oh, okay. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. , each state, this is one of those, one of those topics where the state law does differ from state to state. Okay. Unlike the, unlike, um, sexting Mm-Hmm. , um, in nude photos. Um, this is a state by state law. So I can tell you in California that that's the way it's worded, is that you are entitled to a free education. And if somebody gets in the way of that, they've broken the law. Okay. So you can use that to your advantage. And trust me, when you get the law involved, schools do tend to back down from being, from pushback and will do what they can to, uh, to fix, to fix the, the issue. Mm-Hmm. But I would always say, go to the school first if we're talking about cyber bullying, um, see if the administration will step in and, and handle it. Um, and then the next step would be getting law enforcement involved. But I, I'm not gonna lie to you, it, it is so hard to, uh, to, to, to get the cyber bullying issue under control because our kids don't wanna report it. Sure. Um, but when it comes to the predatory behavior, immediately notify law enforcement. Okay. Immediately. Yeah. Okay.

Hillary Wilkinson: (33:32)

You've given us a lot to digest. I know.

Wendy Waddell: (33:35)

It's, it's, it's always too much. And, and that's the problem, is there's just so much information, it's hard to, hard to know how to smoosh it down and give you just the highlights. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (33:46)

So when we come back, I'm going to ask Wendy Wadel for her healthy screen habit. I'll just take us right back in.

Wendy Waddell: (33:54)

Perfect.

Hillary Wilkinson: (33:56)

We are back. I am talking with Wendy Waddell from Safety Net at Smart Cyber Choices, a program of the San Diego Police Foundation. Wendy, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit. This is going to be a tip or takeaway that our listeners can put into practice into their home, preferably right away. What's yours?

Wendy Waddell: (34:22)

So, mine is to be aware of red flag questions that your child may be, let me rephrase that. My tip is to, uh, be aware of interactions with people Your children don't know. I'm, let me get lemme start all over again, though. That's problem. I No, no, no problem. I gotta wrap, wrap my brain around it. You are. Um, so, so when it comes to gaming, let me, let me start it this way. When it comes to gaming, a lot of times our kids will game with strangers complete and total strangers that they've never met. I always tell kids I don't approve of that. But if you are in a gaming situation where you are playing with somebody you've never met, you have no idea who they are, only talk about the game or don't talk at all. But if you are going to talk, only talk about the game, do not answer any questions whatsoever.

Wendy Waddell: (35:15)

Even if it seems like it's a very casual, non-invasive type question. Such as, um, Hey, what grade are you in? Hey, how old are you? Hey, do you have, uh, brothers and sisters? Are your parents at work? Do you have pets? What time is it where you are? What's the weather like where you are? These questions seem very innocuous and they seem very conversational. But these questions are meant to lull your child into a sense of safety. This person not asking me anything really personal or digging deep into who I am, they're just making conversation. But what those easy peasy questions can do is then lull your kids into feeling safe, and then the more invasive questions happen. And what that means is either there's a predator on the other end who's trying to get to your child for inappropriate and illegal purposes, or it could be a hacker on the other end who is now going to gain access to your child's gaming account. So a red flag question is anything that is personal on any level whatsoever, even if something as simple as, Hey, how old are you? We wanna make sure we don't game with strangers, but if we do:  Talk about the game or don't talk at all.

Hillary Wilkinson: (36:35)

Hmm, good advice. So as always, you can find a complete transcript of this show by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button and scroll down to find this episode on those show notes you can also find a link to Wendy's organization and any of the resources discussed. Wendy, thank you so much for taking the time to be here and for just all your advocacy for the safety of our kids and parents,

Wendy Waddell: (37:07)

Oh, thank you for having me, Hillary. Uh, it's something that I'm very passionate about and I hope to reach so many more in our community so we can keep our kids safe.