For More Info: Opt-Out Family's Website

The Opt-Out Family: How to Give Your Kids What Technology Can't, by Erin Loechner: Get the Book Here!

Hillary Wilkinson: (00:15)

My guest today did a brave thing when she recognized the grip technology was having on her family, she opted out. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits, Erin Loechner.

Erin Loechner: (00:50)

Thank you, Hilary. Thank you so much for having me. I'm just, I'm so excited to talk to you about this.

Hillary Wilkinson: (00:55)

Same, same. So Erin, you were kind of a blogger before blogging was a verb, and you had followers that numbered in more than the six figures range. And you even had a contract with HGTV.com that featured like web personalities. You did a two year renovation show. I'm, I'm giving all this background 'cause it would seem that online life was serving you well, and yet you opted to walk away from it all. So I kind of, it begs the question, what happened? 

Erin Loechner: (01:31)

Hmm. That's a great question. I wish I had this, you know, really captivating, grabbing moment, right? This just absolute before and after and, and yet I think probably the shift from my work in influencing to my work not influencing right? Being just completely off. I've opted out of social media. I am no longer online in many, many ways. Um, the big shift for me happened when I had my daughter, uh, she's 12 now. And I had this realization pretty early on that if I'm going to be continuing this work and if I want to continue doing it well in kind of the framework of what we know to be true of, so what performs well online, right? I'm gonna be parenting with my phone in my hand a lot more than I want to. And I also knew from all of my work in Silicon Valley, my husband worked in Apple's ad agency.

Erin Loechner: (02:28)

I mean, we were in it, we were in the board rooms, we were in the conferences. We were, I was an early beta tester for Pinterest. I was in it and I knew, oh, this algorithm, it's completely out of our control. We don't know where it leads. And it's not any place that I want my children to be. And so I have always been a firm believer that, um, if you are not excited about the future, can you maybe come alongside and create a future you are excited about? And I wanted to be able to pass along to my child, “Hey, the world is gonna tell you that social media is inevitable, that it is just an absolute integral part of your life, but it doesn't have to be. And I'm gonna show you why.” And so I decided I was gonna go first. I'm gonna give it a go and I'm gonna try to see if I can live a vibrant, um, happy and engaged life without social media. And I, and I can and I have. And, uh, we're taking our kids along for the ride.

Hillary Wilkinson: (03:25)

That's great. Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting to hear what paths brought people to what's now being termed as digital wellness, but what used to just be the way people lived, you know? Mm-Hmm. . Yes. So, so you have a brand new book that dropped yesterday called The Opt Out Family, How to Give Your Kids What Technology Can't, and Can you explain the term Opt Out? It's kinda, uh, it's sort of self-explanatory, but I just, um, I would like to from the creator, . Could you, could you explain?

Erin Loechner: (04:01)

Yeah. Well, I'm glad you asked that because I think it can be a very provocative term that sort of makes you assume that it's all or nothing. And it's not, it, there is a spectrum to opting out. And truly, I created the narrative simply because I wanted to know where is the book or where is the movement for people who are no longer willing to tiptoe around the subject, right? For the people that are just saying, Hey, we've had enough, we have, we've read the research, we know where this is leading. We don't want our kids involved in personal devices. So what is there for us? And that's what being an opt-out family could be. But it can also mean just someone that pauses and reassess at every point when you are faced with the decision of, Hey, do I sign the waiver for facial recognition at summer camp?

Erin Loechner: (04:45)

Right? Or do I sign up for the band app to keep in touch with this social circle or with this club or this sport? Um, do I kind of move along this path that sort of progresses us into more technology? Or do I pause and ask myself, is there another option here? Is there a better option here? Um, it's simply a family that says, yes, technology may be the future, but is this the future that we want? And then you are willing to kind of get really creative within those limitations and carve a new path. That's an opt-out family.

Hillary Wilkinson: (05:20)

That's great. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. We at Healthy Screen Habits, we are, um, we are pro intentional use of tech. So sounds like we hold hands a lot with that, where it's, we're, we are not anti-tech. We just want tech to stay in its lane. Yes. And to do that, it requires just active, constant maintenance and monitoring of our own use. Right? Mm-Hmm. I mean that's just, that's the tricky thing. Yes. So I was one of the fortunate ones to get a sneak peek at your book before it dropped, and thank you for that . And, and you spend the first part of your book talking about algorithms, which it makes sense that you kind of were aware of algorithms before the general public was. And I love the way you explain not only how they function, but you also say something that I'd like to hear more about. It happens to be on page 23 if you need a reference, but I love this quote. You say, as our world gets smaller, so too do our lives. Mm-Hmm, And what, what does that mean?

Erin Loechner: (06:37)

Well, in reference to, to the algorithm, certainly, um, our family motto has been from the get go, be more engaging than the algorithm, right? Because we believe that it's not enough to say no to devices. You have to say yes to something better. And part of that is recognizing that there are benefits and also limitations to technology. And so one of, one of those big limitations I see often, and I certainly witnessed after I left social media myself, was we all know now of confirmation bias. We know of filter bubbles. We know that the algorithm is designed to say,” Hey, if you like this, you'll probably like this. You'll probably like this. And more of this and more of this!” Because the goal is time on device right? To keep you on your phone a little longer. And so when our lives become sort of limited by select information that we are not even seeking out necessarily, but is being fed to us, um, our lives get smaller, we, uh, we lose the ability or the curiosity to kind of look beyond what is fed or what is available on the table, right?

Erin Loechner: (07:42)

Our table is set, um, with a very select certain set of information. And, uh, one thing that I noticed after I left social media was, I don't know if anyone else has had this experience, but there was kind of a ticker tape running in my head when I was speaking with, with people. This was when I was still on social media where I knew who they voted for. I knew what they posted about, I knew what they, where they shopped. I knew what podcast they listened to because it was all available, it was all online. They were talking about it all the time. And after I left and I didn't have that information anymore, it was a bit like it, there was some ambiguity there, there was some uncertainty. I didn't quite know exactly what to talk about because they didn't know what was happening in their life.

Erin Loechner: (08:27)

And what happened was, I just defaulted to you're a human being, I'm a human being. Let's find some common ground together. Um, in the absence of knowing anything about each other's lives, in the absence of those snap judgements or those sort of preconceived notions that we carry about each other, I didn't have any of that. It was this perfectly clean slate of you're a person and I'm a person, and here we are in the dentist waiting room. Let's have a conversation. And it was really a beautiful, freeing thing that happened that I recognized my life did get a bit, a lot, a lot larger. And my outlook and my perspective became more diverse. Which is funny because I think we tell ourselves that the, um, the world we've created online in this digital capacity, uh, really does invite more, um, front row seats to what the world is experiencing. But through confirmation and filter bubbles, it can have the adverse effect as well where we just truly don't see beyond what we're fed.

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:24)

Right, right. Becoming that whole echo chamber effect. Yes. Yeah. No, and, um, I, I deeply value curiosity. I deeply value curiosity and creativity. And I think that when you spend time offline, it kind of tickles that curiosity in a way that is different from just the information seeking that happens when you're online. When you're online, you may fall down a rabbit hole, but you're kind of, that curiosity is kind of being driven. But I like how you're talking about how finding commonality through conversation and just being openly, genuinely curious about somebody else and what, what they're doing. Like, you know, what brings them to the flower section at the grocery store today?

Erin Loechner: (10:20)

, you know? Yeah, of course. And I think while you see that, while you recognize that there is a difference between curiosity online and offline, because curiosity has an inherent risk to it, right? Curiosity killed the cat, there's a reason it is,  there is ambiguity and uncertainty involved in it in a way that when we are just searching for information online, there's no risk involved. We don't really, there's, there's, um, we're we're just kind of knowledge seeking rather than truly, uh, learning in a way that invites a little bit of, um, a little bit of risk, a little bit of challenge, a little discomfort. And those are all really good things and really valuable things when we need to learn something new.

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:03)

When we come back, we're gonna talk about how opting out of technology can allow families more time to opt in to the rest of their lives. 

Ad Break - 988

Hillary Wilkinson: (12:08)

I am speaking with Erin Loechner, a former social media influencer who walked away from a million fans to live a low tech lifestyle and is now teaching others how to do the same. As the founder of the Global Tech-Free Movement, the Opt-out Family, Erin has authored a book that dropped yesterday titled The Opt-Out Family, how to Give Your Kids What Technology Can't. This book is written in a way that I found to be part guide, part interactive, and best of all, it's written in Erin's friendly, encouraging voice. So, Erin,  you have really seen sort of perks and pitfalls of social media. If people are looking to curb their own usage, where do you recommend they start? What did you do?

Erin Loechner: (13:04)

Hmm. You know, what Hillary, the, the most effective transition I made in my sort of journey toward low tech, because it is, it's a lifelong journey. I think it's, we're constantly shifting, but I found that parental controls work just as well on parents as they do on children. And so, uh, I have done the flip phone, I have done the hybrid phone. Where I have landed in my best case scenario is I have a smartphone with all of the parental controls turned on. So it doesn't give me internet access, it doesn't give me a camera, it doesn't give me, I do have maps, I will say, so I have maps, I have text messages and I have a phone. Um, and what happened after that shift was I, I found that if I wanted to go check my email or I wanted to, um, get something done or order something for the kids, whatever I needed at the time, I could do it in a space that was reserved for the mental capacity it took to do those things.

Erin Loechner: (14:05)

Right? There was no more of those, uh, couple minutes, quick check in here and this and this and this. There was not the, the multitasking happening or the the shifting of goals that were happening back and forth all day. And, um, it really freed my brain space to be allowed to, um, just get on the desktop computer that we house share as a family and get the thing done there out in the open when, when there was time, when it was a good time for me, and it was earmarked for, uh, productivity, right? Uh, the other thing that I did was I removed my, uh, wallpaper and the phone lock setting, and I just made it black. So there was no cute beach scene, no family photo. And what that did, Hillary was  it became a phone, not my phone. And it made all the difference for me because all of a sudden it was just there on the counter.

Erin Loechner: (14:57)

It was absolutely useless for anything fun, right? You talk about not making it this making technology a tool, right? And not this sort of entertainment outlet. Um, it became a tool. It put it back in its rightful place. And now I find myself forgetting it on the counter all the time, because if I'm going to the grocery store, somebody else will have a phone. I don't need mine. Or if I'm on a bike ride, I don't need mine. I don't need a phone at all. I certainly don't need my phone. And so that really made a big shift. So we have a video on opt family.com that shows people how to do both of those things. Just depersonalizing your phone and then putting the parental controls on yourself. I have found it to be so valuable.

Hillary Wilkinson: (15:38)

I, I, I am just, I, I mean, I've never heard of that, that tip, and I hear a lot of tips. Okay. , I, I get a lot of hacks, but I love this depersonalization because as you're talking, what I'm realizing is you are so right in the, uh, the wallpaper or the, the photos that change, like those essentially trigger a little dopamine hit, don't they? Yes. And dopamine is what's gonna bring us back. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter that exists in, within our body in a variety of places, but it really, it's associated with the pleasure pathway. But it actually also is kind of the, it's the, it's the thing that makes us desire things. And I think we have all had that experience, certainly of cleaning out your closet or finding the old box of photographs, and next thing you know, it's two hours later and you're still, you're, you're slipping through the photographs, you know? And essentially that is what my phone does. And I've never, you are enlightening me because I have never drawn that comparison before. And you're absolutely right. I am going to try that. I am very excited. . You

Erin Loechner: (16:58)

Should. And it's not an accident. And I mean, Silicon Valley knows that, oh, if we get people, if we get people to take ownership over this product, I mean, how many times have we just in this conversation said my phone? Yes. And instead of a phone. And it's a big shift when you can finally realize that, oh, I see. That was on purpose. And, um, and it worked .

Hillary Wilkinson: (17:18)

Yes. Yes. So speaking about that kind of intentionality, and I feel like I'm always like, uh, like, you know, you always feel like you've been duped, a little . You're like, oh, they figured me out. Of course they figured you out, Hillary. It's like the top brains in the country, you know, programming these things. But I, I do have to say that one of the things that I recognized very early on was that Facebook was not a healthy space for me. I, I did not like the thoughts. I was thinking about my, my friends when I was looking at their projected lives. Like, I mean, I just found myself really, uh, falling down the jealousy drain. And I don't, I don't want to think that way about people who I know and love. So I just stopped. I stu you know, I pulled myself off of Facebook and I was, that was very early on it, it must have been.

Hillary Wilkinson: (18:09)

I actually, I know when it was, it was 2009, and I was fine not being on social media at all. My friends knew I wasn't, and I was kinda like the weird one who had to be caught up on things because I didn't, I didn't know that your son had made the All Stars team, or I didn't know, you know. But in that way I kind of, you know, I thought maybe I was appealing and quirky, so . So at any rate, it just worked for me. And then middle school hit for my son, and I started missing things left and right. And I could not figure out, like, how did everybody know when the orchestra performances were happening or when picture day was or anything else. And then I'd ask people like, how did you know this was happening? I didn't get anything.

Hillary Wilkinson: (18:55)

And it was because it was all posted online. And then when he entered, you know, with the, with social media feeds, and then when he entered high school, it was even more compounded. And so I had to make the decision. I could not, I was feeling like I was burdensome to some of my friends who were, you know, continually having to update, update Hillary, 'cause she is not on social media, you know? So how I, this is all stemming to a question. Okay. , I promise . So, um, so I did make the decision to go back online, but my question to you is this, what, so how do you recommend parents who don't want to be on social media maintain the connection with school announcements? How, like, I mean, because so many teachers, and I understand, you know, the coaches, the, you know, con the band instructors, the, you know, so  I, I understand why it is so helpful to them, but if you don't wanna be on social media as a family or as a, as a parent, what do we, what do we do? Erin ? 

Erin Loechner: (20:04)

Yes. Yes. I'm so glad you asked that question too, because you're right. It, I think that is kind of the gateway for a lot of parents experience. You know, they, they sort of make this personal revolutionary decision to, I would like to not be involved in this space. It's not good for me. And then what brings them back is, we'll do anything for our kids, right? So one thing that, that I found that was really helpful is I have a series of scripts, uh, and this is also available on the website, but scripts for clubs, organizations, teachers at school, administrators, principals explaining, uh, some of the pitfalls that come with relaying information on these platforms, right? Um, try just giving them enough information that they need to be able to make an educated decision. And then I will offer, “So how can I help? Because here's the thing.

Erin Loechner: (20:52)

We have provided my, our children with desktop computers. So really, uh, if they've, if we've got an email address, we can be in the loop, but how can I help you coordinate that? I don't wanna put any extra, extra work on your plate. I recognize that you're already leading a team or coaching an organization or throwing a theater performance, whatever. Can I sign up to just be a, some sort of communications coordinator where I will take all of the information, you can give me all your important dates, and I will send out a mass email to whoever has opted out?” Um, just so that parents have the option, right? Of not, the thing is now with Facebook, we don't even see half of the things because the algorithm is no longer chronological. It's all interest based, and it's based on sort of what's eliciting the strongest reaction from you, which is probably not, um, you know, Bison Day at the county fair. So I think just being sort that's,

Hillary Wilkinson: (21:47)

That's oddly specific .

Erin Loechner: (21:51)

I know, I know I have a whole list of things that I've missed. Um, and yet I have found that, that to be a very successful strategy for parents is just, um, even setting up a meeting that's just saying, Hey, um, we're, we've opted out of social media. How can my kid be in the loop anyway and how can I help make that happen for them? Recognizing that you're doing a whole slew of other things as well. Um, and every single time that I've made that offer, um, it has been met with. Thank you. And, um, that would be really helpful. We have a couple other people on the team that also don't do social media and what a win Hillary to then be in touch with those parents, inform some sort of opt-out, circle yourself. So, um, I think that's a great way to do it. I really do.

Hillary Wilkinson: (22:34)

Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that you provide that tool of, of having those scripts. So, but yeah. Fantastic. So I can honestly say people are probably now convinced , they want to be an, they want to be an opt-out family, or, or at least a tech light family! So let's talk about some, um, concrete ways they can move forward with this in their home. We've kind of talked about like the, you know, the outer circles of the family. Let's move into the house and you have this concept called “strewing” that I love. And can you talk about stewing?

Erin Loechner: (23:07)

Yes, of course. And I love talking about things we could do in our house. 'cause that's the, the sphere we have the most control and influence over. And I think that's, uh, really gonna be key in sort of, uh, creating a home environment where we don't want to escape from on our phones, right? So Sting is, uh, it's an early educational concept. Both of my parents are public school teachers, so there's a lot of this sort of, um, love of learning built in here. And, um, one of the things that we have done in our home from the get go is just sort of foster this environment of, like you said, curiosity and, um, discovery. And so screwing is essentially, you are just laying out objects throughout your home that might invite delight, that might invite an experience. It's the same thing as sort of leasing, leaving a puzzle that's just been started on the living room coffee table.

Erin Loechner: (23:57)

I don't know anyone that can walk past that without trying to find a piece and fill it in along the way. Um, it is the same, uh, as, you know, going to the library and just displaying some books cover sight out, um, on the, on the fireplace hearth or just, um, thinking of kind of looking at your home in the eyes of your children and asking yourself, is there anything that they can discover here today? Is there anything new for them? Anything delightful for them? Anything engaging for them, uh, and capitalizing on those moments, because that's what the algorithm does. Hillary. Like, that's what, uh, the algorithm is such a built in vehicle for discovery. And every single social platform you'll go to, they have this down to a science. TikTok has removed all starting cues. So essentially you just pop on the app and you are met with discovery upon discovery, and they're all things that will delight you or make you laugh or that you'll think are fun.

Erin Loechner: (24:54)

And we can make our homes the same way in very simple methods that don't require us being, you know, a cruise director or director, but instead just, Hey, it's, if we're blowing up balloons in our kitchen, our kid's gonna say, what's the occasion? Or if we're putting cookies in the oven, they're gonna smell and come in and ask, you know, what's for dinner and when's it happening? What's the dessert for or putting a fire on? And, um, just having some books scattered and just creating those moments so that there is room for connection. Um, and there isn't really something to kind of be listless about or think there's gotta be something more exciting to do online than this. Right? Yeah. That's the

Hillary Wilkinson: (25:36)

Goal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, and I, um, I, I know I brought up the, uh, topic of going through boxes of photos because clearly I'm cleaning stuff out in my house, , . But I, you know, it's funny, I had not in, I had not realized how interested my kids would be in our wedding photos. Hmm. So just putting your wedding album out invites that whole dialogue of, you know, who is this? And, and it's such a beautiful way for long-term family story building as well, because many of the people, honestly, who were at my wedding, they're related to, but are no longer with us, you know? So I, I just, I love, I love that stewing idea. Yeah. Um, and you also have this, uh, secret weapon, which is kind of, I think, I think holds hands with stewing. You borrowed social media's playbook stating the way in is the way out using the element of surprise. And how, how does that work? Why is surprise act as such a, I don't know, such an igniter? How, why does that work?

Erin Loechner: (26:46)

I think the same reason. It, it works for adults to be honest. I mean, so much of life is the, the routine and the mundane. And I think those are all really beautiful. I, I, I firmly believe in structure for children, and yet having that element of surprise for them to rely on and just in terms of, “Hey, this isn't just your average Tuesday, right?” I spoke with a mom who, um, her daughter was just feeling just listless a little down. Um, this is, this is a child that has indeed on social media. There was, there were no sort of, um, mental health areas to, to, uh, pursue or to really kind of deconstruct. It was just, I'm just feeling kind of, I don't really know, and just kind of gloomy, like something's just feeling kind of heavy, kind of weighty. And so, um, the mom kind of sat with it for a little bit, and then that night she woke her daughter up for an ice cream sundae at midnight, and she thought, “Let's just, let's have a moment here.

Erin Loechner: (27:40)

Let's just bring in some surprise. This isn't your birthday. This isn't something that you're expecting. This is just out of the blue.” And you know what, Hillary for the next, gosh, she rode that wave for 3, 4, 3, 4 weeks. I mean, it was just, okay, I just needed a little jolt. I needed a little kick in the pants, a little, just something to look forward to. We all need it, and we all need something, just a shred of delight, uh, to, to bring into our, our life. And that's what our kids can seek offline rather than online, um, in a safer and healthier way.

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:12)

Right. And I think that element of surprise has a higher sticking level for memory building as well.  You know, so it's, it'll be that, remember when, remember when we did that? You know, and so I, like you, I come from background of education and I do believe in structure and routine and all of the comforting things that come with that, but surprise is very powerful. So I love that. When we, uh, when we come back, I'm going to ask Erin Loechner for her Healthy Screen habit. 

Ad Break:  Thank you donors!!

Hillary Wilkinson:

 I'm speaking with Erin Lochner, founder of the Opt Out Family and author of the book, The Optout Family, How to Give Your Kids What Technology Can't. She's a Mom of three and a lover of fresh tortillas.

Hillary Wilkinson: (29:50)

I discovered that . So Erin, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask each guest four, A healthy Screen Habit, which is a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice in their own home. What's yours?

Erin Loechner: (30:09)

So my tip, uh, is a bit of a, a non-traditional one, I will say, but we've used it with our kids from the Get-go. And it's simply that the next time that you're tempted to use Siri to answer a question or satisfy a curiosity, think Ask Siri, SIRI, someone I really idolize. And not only will you be expanding your community by reaching out to someone offline, but you will just receive this deeper, more contextual, more personalized answer, and you can grow in wisdom rather than knowledge.

Hillary Wilkinson: (30:46)

Great. Great. I love it. As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show as well as a link to purchase the book we've been talking about, which dropped yesterday. Um, believe me, we have only scratched the very top of the surface of all the great tips and a ton of research inside of it. You do this by visiting the show notes for this episode by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button and find this episode. 

Erin, thank you so much for being here today, for being that courageous disruptor that isn't satisfied with the status quo. It's not always easy being the mom that stands up. It states that this is a screen free house or play date, and I'm grateful you are.

Erin Loechner: (31:34)

Thank you, Hillary. Thank you so much.