For more info: ReConnect's website

The Social Dilemma

Hillary Wilkinson: (00:00)

Reconnect Movement creates in-person communities to detox from distractions, make friends, and just kinda hang out. Recognizing that being on social media currently feels like a requirement for today's teens and young adults to socialize, Reconnect Movement serves to provide offline balance for those who just don't want to be on social media. My guest today started Reconnect Movement while he was in high school. He noticed that people had stopped talking in person and wanted to help students really interact face-to-face. He now runs the organization on college campuses. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habit, Sean Killingsworth.

Sean Killingsworth: (03:09)

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Hillary Wilkinson: (03:11)

Sean, what happened that served as this sort of wake up call to make you recognize the need for change surrounding social media in your life?

Sean Killingsworth: (03:25)

Yeah, so this is kind of, there's two tiers to my experience, uh, with this wake up call. And my first kind of experience was when I had my iPhone with social media. I got my first iPhone in eighth grade, but I got my first social media in, um, ninth grade and or I really started using it in ninth grade. And I just realized how it consumed me. It consumed my time, it gave me so much anxiety to be on Snapchat, sending pictures of myself, and I found myself on Instagram wasting so, like hours and hours of my day and comparing myself to other people and their lives and feeling bad about myself. And I was just, it was, my phone became such a source of negative feelings and wasting of time and all this. I just kind of rejected it.

Sean Killingsworth: (04:25)

I was like, I, I don't wanna be on my phone. I tried to, I tried to do a bunch of things to change my phone habits, but I always found myself going back. So I’d try to delete Snapchat. I would add it back to talk to my friends. I would try to delete Instagram. I'd add it back 'cause someone told me about a post. I would, you know, try to charge my phone, phone outta my room, but then I'd be, you know, on a FaceTime call and it'd end up in my room again. So it was kind of like, felt inescapable. And so, um, I chose to get rid of my iPhone entirely, uh, when I was 15 going into my sophomore year of high school. And I got a flip phone. So that was kind of when the second wake up call came about, because what I thought that was gonna solve my problems.

Sean Killingsworth: (05:09)

And, 'cause I was sick of socializing on my phone. I never found Snapchat to be satisfying. I was like, I'm gonna get a flip phone. I'll talk to people, it'll be great. And then when I got a flip phone and I went into school with no social media presence, no connection to the internet, and no idea what was going on, I became isolated in a whole different new way. Because what I discovered was no one was socializing in the real world anymore. Mm-Hmm. . The, the thing that was more, much more important and much more impactful for, uh, everyone in my peers in my high school social life was social media and was their social media presence. So I experienced a lot of isolation trying to make friends without, uh, social media. That's, that's when I started the Reconnect Movement to find other students that wanted to, uh, be begin, uh, being part of socializing without our phones.

Hillary Wilkinson: (06:05)

Yeah. Yeah. So I know that you talk about this experience and kind of like the, the vibe, if you will, Sure. you use the structure and the concept of a social ecosystem, which I, I really like these analogies. Can you talk about this sort of what, like, what brings us to that sort of social desert created by social media?

Sean Killingsworth: (06:41)

Yeah, absolutely. So social ecosystem is an, a big part of the analogies that I used to describe my experience when I was in high school trying to socialize without a phone. Mm-Hmm. . Because the biggest thing I discovered was that there, there was this online social life and the action of all my friends and all the people that were in my school, all the people I wanted to become friends with, they were all participating in, you know, high school social life, which is something that to many generations before is set in stone. Like, you know, you go, you tp houses, you egg cars, you, you, you know, dingdong ditch houses, you go to parties. It's this like, you know, or that's that side of it. Of course, that's kind of movie-ified, but you know, you have your friends, you hang out, you stay up all night, you do, you know, stuff like that.

Sean Killingsworth: (07:37)

And that's kinda the assumption. And that's what I expected as well. But when I went to school, I discovered it had been replaced by this online kind of isolated right next to each other on our phones using our phones. And we think that what is on our phone is real, but we're ignoring what's right in front of us, which is what we could be doing, which is like having these great fun times together. So when I discovered that everyone was kind of in this online social world, I tried to, like I said, got a flip phone and go back to the regular one, but I realized there was, it had been lost. Mm-Hmm. So that's kind of where, where the social, social wasteland is the term I use to describe the experience that I felt when I tried to relive what I kind of described, the talking to girls and asking them on dates and going and sharing a milkshake with, you know, two straws and all the, like this, this high school I wanted to experience.

Hillary Wilkinson: (08:37)

You wanted your Lady and the Tramp moment, Sean! You wanted your spaghetti noodles!

Sean Killingsworth: (08:42)

I totally did. I wanted my high school movie like experience. And when I tried to experience that because I saw everyone was just zombied on their phones, when I tried to create that for myself, I experienced this desert of opportunities for connection because this digital world had become, um, the only option and there was no alternative. So that's really, that, that became the problem was it wasn't that we were on our phones. Mm-Hmm. it was that the real first issue, main issue I talk about is that if I do wanna put down my phone because I'm spending too much time on it, or if anyone around me does, in my generation, we have no alternative to turn to. There's no in-person social life because my generation has, uh, has never experienced that.

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:30)

I have heard you on different recordings etcetera, call it, call it the social desert. But I think like this, this sort of dystopic view of social wasteland, it really, it drives home the, the urgency to, I understand why you had the need to create a, a group called Reconnect because that's what you were looking to do. And I know that, you know, if anybody wants to kind of have a, um, a middle-aged experience of what it must be like to try to connect with, you know, others, because I think it's easy to forget, you know, what it's like to be in a teenager/young adults feet once you, once you crest the, the, the other side into career and home and family you know, once you're on that other side, but if you just simply, I'm picturing standing in line at, I shop at Trader Joe's, so standing in line at Trader Joe's and my daughter and I will often play a game where I, uh, I quiz her on, I, I think it's important to know the names of flowers.

Hillary Wilkinson: (10:55)

So, we'll, invariably, invariably, the floral section, invariably the floral section is near the front of Trader Joe's. And I'll stand there and I'll say like, can you find the gladiolas? Can you find, I'm like, okay, you see those pinks over there? What are they called? You know, but this originated, it used to be, I mean, I feel like, I feel like when I was growing up, like the, the, the old folks would talk about, you know, well,  “I remember when gum could be bought for a nickel.”  And I'm like, I remember when you stood in grocery stores and chatted in line. You know, I mean, people, it's kind of like this art of small talk, which is incredibly painful. I understand that. But it's, it's also, you know, going the way of the dodo bird. So when my daughter and I like, we'll, stand in line and, and do the flower game, like, um, a lot of it, it draws these looks of curiosity almost from other people of like, what are you doing ? Cause we're talking

Sean Killingsworth: (12:01)

Yes. Um, that is definitely a phenomenon. And something I would call, uh, you know, that is an attribute of the wasteland that is a quality of the wasteland is when you are, first of all, small talk is like you're saying, like very uncommon now. And seen it almost as like, scary and like, why would you do that? Um, and so when someone like yourself and your daughter are, are talking and pointing out flowers and like connecting instead of in, in a time where now it's so normal to just pull out your phone because it's a, it's like a meaningless moment or a useless moment. Um, uh, it's odd. And everybody around you in physical space is oftentimes, even if they're not on their phone, they're like, you know, it's isolation. It's this odd feeling that we're in. I don't, I, I mean, I, I can't speak for other countries, but you know, from where I'm around, like, most people seem to be so isolated, and if they're not actually on their phone, they kind of emulate that.

Sean Killingsworth: (13:04)

And so what I experienced in school when I was, I was basically sticking out like a sore thumb all the time. 'Cause everybody, I mean, you know, my generation obviously has the most technology use, and so everybody's, everyone's on their phone at all times. Mm-Hmm.  And it was like, when I would try, so if I'm in a hallway waiting for a class, this happened by the way, um, and there's a line, you know, this teacher's late, the door's locked, but we're all here for the, this class, there's like 12 of us in line in for, for this class. And I'm sitting there, I have a flip phone, I've got nothing to do. Every single kid, I took a picture of it. Uh, every single kid was on their phone with their headphones in. And so the, the hallway was silent and all, you know, all the other classes.

Hillary Wilkinson: (13:46)

It's creepy. Sean, it's creepy to walk around a college campus or a high school campus Yes. And have it be quiet. Yes. Because those were places of cacophony! of noise when, you know, so sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead. Yeah,

Sean Killingsworth: (14:02)

No worries. You're right. It is creepy and dystopian. And, um, so when I, so I thought, okay, well I, I wanna overcome this because I'm the guy with the flip phone. I should be doing this, you know, and I, so I tried to start a conversation with this guy next to me. I just like, I don't know, complimented his shirt or something. And I remember him like looking up and being like, “Why are you doing this to me? Why are, why are you singling me out?” Because as, as soon as I said that to him, everyone else looked up from their phones like, what's going on? Like, like, looking up to judge me and, and like, look at me like, like, you know, I, I was all, all of a sudden on a stage to everybody just for trying to connect. And this kid was also like, why are you embarrassing me? Like, I don't wanna be a part of this. And that's when I realized, 'cause I love to connect with people. And that's when I realized it was outta my hands. It was no longer that it was, I spent too much time on my phone. And if I got off my phone, then I would be able to experience this, you know, socializing again. It was that the environment had changed and because it had been so long without an alternative that it was outta my hands. That's why I had to create Reconnect as a new

Hillary Wilkinson: (15:11)

Environment. Okay. So when we come back, let's talk some more about how Reconnect Movement is seeking to create flourishing social ecosystems on college campuses.

—-------Ad break : HSH Website

Hillary Wilkinson: (17:21)

I'm speaking with Sean Killingsworth, the founder of Reconnect Movement, with the mission of creating a phone free social community at every major university. Sean now runs the Reconnect Movement at University of Florida, University of Central Florida and Rollins College. And from what I understand, he is looking to expand. So let's, let's talk about that. It's the relative start of the school year.

And I know you don't have current numbers on club members, but could you share some maybe from last year or how big are these Reconnect Movements, uh, movement groups on campuses and like, how do you advertise? 'cause I'm sure pretty sure it's not on social media, or is it, I don't know?

Sean Killingsworth: (18:30)

Yeah, absolutely. So we currently have our, our largest chapter is at University of Florida, and we just started last semester in the spring. It was our first semester that we were on, and we have 215 members in our group on campus. And, you know, we've had our largest event was 55 people, and it was, it's been like the biggest whirlwind of a club that we've had so far. And it's been, it's been cool to kind of see that happen and see the excitement form because other organizations, after seeing our club, just, you know, a lot of excitement and, and participation like kind of begin to be created around our club. Other organizations reached out, like saying they would make their events phone free if they, if we advertise their events to our club. And that was really cool because it showed that they, they were like, whoa, this is working, like this makes sense.

Sean Killingsworth: (19:32)

Like, I want to join into that and that's what I would want. That's what I want the most. We advertise through our group chats that we create, we advertise through flyers and we advertise, we do advertise through social media. So I personally a a lot, this is something that comes up a lot. A lot of people say, oh, well, you're on social media yourself, or you use social media to, to, you know, market your movement. Like, aren't you such a hypocrite? And I actually, I see no problem using social media as a tool to spread anyone's message. Um, and it's all about, you know,  using it as a tool as best you can because, you know, most of us might have seen the Social Dilemma and seen how it can be predatory and not just a tool, but I look at it as if any of you have ever seen the Matrix, you gotta go into the matrix to bring the people out of the matrix. So that's how I see it. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (20:41)

You're freeing the pod people .

Sean Killingsworth: (20:44)

Yes, yes. Exactly. You have to plug in in order to go re that's where people are. So I see it as a strength. And what I like to do is create our social media accounts as reconnected social media. So, you know, we never post anyone's face without consent. We never post pictures of people unless it is a consented group photo. So no one has to worry about having a picture of them. They don't like posted on social media or being, you know, while they're at an event. They don't have to worry, worry about being taken a picture and posted, because that too also contributes to,the anxiety that my generation feels constantly of, of the fear being posted. So we remove that.

Hillary Wilkinson: (21:33)

Oh, I think that is something that doesn't get talked about enough, is this performative aspect of life that occurs from the sort of infiltration of social media to all areas where, like, I I, um, I would think that a lot of things that you do on Reconnect are things that a lot of times people would typically be posting about them because they're, they're cool and they're fun and they're active, and people like portraying that side of their life. They don't take, you know, it's very rare that you have posts of people doing laundry, you know, . It's, they wanna be doing cool things. And Reconnect is all about not just, you know, reconnecting socially, but also it's kind of like being outside and engaged in your environment. So do I, I can, I can imagine that people are trying some things for the first time and with that they're probably nervous about looking like an idiot, you know? I mean, because when you try so something for the first time, you, you, you're not good at it! 

Sean Killingsworth: (22:43)

Yes, it is, it can be very challenging for first time members, um, especially people who are not so outgoing naturally or maybe are more of an introverted person. But you gotta think about it, like, I hear so many adults say, “Oh man, I'm so glad I didn't have social media when I was a kid. Like, I'm so glad I never had that when I was in college. Oh my gosh.”  You know, and it's like, and they do genuinely have that reaction. And I mean, we're, we haven't mm-Hmm, that, that visceral reaction of where you're saying like, “Oh, I'm so glad I never had that when I was in college.” Like, that's our college experience.  Is having it, we never got what you're saying. You're so glad you got and you're, you're, you're, you know, wishing you never had it. Like, and so can you try to imagine like everything you do is can be recorded.

Sean Killingsworth: (23:38)

And I know everybody talks about this, but the level of  “on” that we have to be is, is, is just an, it's not human. It's not a human level of anxiety that a human should be experiencing because, you know, everything we, we say is recorded on record. So anything we text or Snapchat, um, or post is, is on the record. So anything you say is completely permanent, meaning you're always watching your words. Anything you do, especially if you're taking a chance, being goofy, trying to be yourself, trying to do something funny is going to be recorded and documented and posted, and then be on the record as well forever for the rest of your life. And also, whenever you do want to do something goofy, you're thinking about recording it yourself as well. So you're dampening your own experiences as well. And, and all of this ends up being on the record and in the back of your mind as well, you're thinking, I could get kicked outta college for making a joke.

Sean Killingsworth: (24:32)

I could lose my jobs in the future. I could be exorcized from society. And these are just 19-year-old college students trying to find themselves and trying to try things and be funny and, and all the things that you the lifelong memories you cherish that are being snuffed by the over, uh, over documentation and over presence of technology. So that's one of the, one of the main rea one of the many reasons why my generation are you, how I call it the social ecosystem, has been devastated. Mm-Hmm. . Because that is one aspect that has, you know, burned down the forests of, of people being able to be goofy and have fun. So, um, that is what Reconnect is, is there to rebuild, is give a student somewhere to go where they can take a deep breath and relax and finally be away from being they can take a chance and be goofy and make the joke without feeling like they're gonna be recorded and made fun of for it. 

Hillary Wilkinson:

Do you have advice for people who feel like they'd like to get kind of out of the desert in off of social media or gaming? I'm talking about like teens and young adults specifically. What's your advice for that?

Sean Killingsworth: (29:50)

So, like I said, it is challenging if you are starting by yourself. Um, however it is, I think one of the important things to remember is you are to, you're definitely not alone in your thinking. If you are the, the high schooler or the college student that is thinking like, “man, like my phone is, our phones are taking away connection from us. We need to be connecting without them.” Or, you know,” I wanna be off my phone more and I wanna find people that also wanna be off their phone more.” For me, I felt so alone at the time, but I quickly discovered there were actually a lot of people that would stand up and say, “Yes, that's it. I agree. I feel the same way. I wanna get off my phone too.” And I eventually made friends and the, the thing, the thing that I did when I made my friends that helped them also want to be off their phones, I didn't ask them to get off their phones, you know?

Sean Killingsworth: (30:52)

Cause that's getting into other people's behavior and you know, it's, it's very important when you ask them to get off their phone. It's not just get off their phone. It's like, put down your social life for me.  That could be the girl they like, that could be their mom texting them. That could be, you know, their very important things for their social life. So I just like to, I started to point out and I started to say like, “Guys, I really feel like, you know, when, when I'm, when I'm on my phone around other people or when I find myself in a group of people that are all on their phones, like, I feel so disconnected and I feel like we could be having so much more fun if we weren't recording things. And if we, if we were living in the moment more. And if we were able to, to do that and, and experience, you know, life without these constant distractions from each other living in the moment.” If you start saying things like that, speak your mind, say how, what you feel, and if you have the courage to speak up and be a leader in that way, then you'd be surprised the people who will start to come out and, and say, “Me too, I wanna also do that.”

Sean Killingsworth: (31:55)

And, you know, we, we have a lot of social anxiety in our generation, so that might be something you're facing as well. Facing the fear of rejection of what if I say that I wanna hang out without my phone and someone is like, “You're crazy! I'm not doing that.” It's not the end of the world. Like, you're gonna survive. And that person's rejection of what you want for your social life and what you want out of your friends is only gonna get you closer to those people that you're really gonna click with that are gonna be on the same page as you. So, you know, I would say speak your mind, speak about how you want to live your life without your phone. And you'd be surprised, there's a lot of kids in our generation that are, are subscribing to that, uh, belief and, and that lifestyle. It's becoming very common. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (32:44)

I totally agree. I totally agree. When I go in to do high school workshops, the, the thing they want is like tools of how do I, you know, they want, they want specifics on, okay, so you're telling me to mute notifications, show me how, how do I, you know, oh, go grayscale. How do I do this? You know, they want tools where it's, the problem is not technology. I think everybody, well, I mean, you know, that, that's a loaded statement. The, the challenge I should say is that technology has somehow just infiltrated everything. And we just want tech to stay in its lane. We want to be intentional with its use, but still have the human experience. So I agree with you.

Sean Killingsworth: (33:30)

Yes, absolutely.

Hillary Wilkinson: (33:31)

Yeah. So we have to take a break, but when we come back, I am going to ask Sean Killingsworth for his healthy screen habit. 

–Ad Break - Take action and donate to keep Healthy Screen Habits going! Click on the donate button.

Hillary Wilkinson: (34:41)

So my guest today is Sean Killingsworth, founder of Reconnect Movement and skater, Sean, what's your best skate move?

Sean Killingsworth: (34:52)

Uh, so I would say a tray flip. Okay. Probably is my favorite one. It's like a, like a kick flip, but it also moves 360, um, horizontally. And, uh, okay. That's a really satisfying one.

Hillary Wilkinson: (35:03)

Okay. Thank you for the explanation because , I'm only barely hanging on with understanding what you're talking about.

Sean Killingsworth: (35:12)

It, it is the whole deal.

Hillary Wilkinson: (35:14)

Excellent. Okay. On every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits Podcast, I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit, which is going to be a tip or takeaway our listeners can put into place nearly immediately. What's yours?

Sean Killingsworth: (35:30)

Okay. So I would say that my healthy screen habit would be the solution to the kind of the, some of the problems that I pointed out in this podcast. Like the, the fact that, you know, my generation is facing this issue of we don't have an alternative to online social life. So if we put our phones down, we don't have somewhere to turn to, to experience that connection. So I would say the best healthy screen habit you can use to combat that, is to create, uh, a space, uh, create a place that it, that can be that alternative to the online social life. So that could look like, you know, if you have younger kids having a birthday party for your kid and then making it, you make it for your kid. So you create a, a phone free social space for him or her, and you kind of, you, you say it's a phone free birthday party and you make it on, on you, you as the parent.

Sean Killingsworth: (36:34)

So then kind of get the parents of, but that could be a chance for you to create that alternative. And then all these kids are gonna see what it feels like to not be, you know, distracted on their iPads while they're hanging out. Or if you have older kids, you know, you could do a picnic with your family where you're, you know, where you, everyone leaves their phones in the car. Or if you are a young adult, you can, you can, you know, try to be a leader in your friend group and say, “Guys, let's hang out and let's leave our phones in the car.”  Or let's you know, if we're going out to dinner, let's put all our phones in the center of the table, or something like that. Because those experiences without your phone is what's going to show you that those can be so valuable as the alternative to the online social life we experience.

Hillary Wilkinson: (37:23)

Awesome. As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show and a link to Sean's movement by visiting the show notes for this episode. You do this by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button and scroll to find this episode. Sean, thank you so much for all your work in trying to get people reconnected and to create, create Space.

Sean Killingsworth: (37:57)

Thank you so much. I, I am happy to be here. This has been a