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Hillary Wilkinson: (00:00)

After her oldest son, Adam, dropped out of college due to his video game addiction, my guest today put her nursing degree to good use and founded Screen Strong,, a nonprofit that empowers families to prevent screen problems and reclaim their kids from toxic screens. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits, Melanie Hempe.

Melanie Hempe: (00:37)

Thank you for having me, Hillary. I'm so happy to be here! I love talking about this topic. Thanks,

Hillary Wilkinson: (00:43)

 I, I understand when you, when you, uh, when you have a platform upon which you're passionate it seems like all conversations lead back to the same thing. 

Melanie Hempe: (00:53)

It just always does. And I never really intended to be on this platform, but like you just mentioned in my little bio there, that this was something that hit me outta the blue. Like you said, I'm a nurse. I thought I kind of understood all things mental health related, I guess you would say , you know, and our oldest son, uh, we have four children, and our oldest son just kind of went to live on a different planet. I'll say it like that. We didn't know what was happening to him all through middle school and high school. We lost Adam, where, what happened, he was playing video games, right? So he got very addicted to video games, right under my nose. I had no idea what was happening. He had all the warning signs, you know, all the things were happening in our house. There was a lot of conflict, and I just thought he was gonna outgrow it.

Melanie Hempe: (01:43)

Hillary, I thought he was gonna go college. Mm-Hmm. . And once he went to college, he's gonna quit playing this silly game, and he was gonna start living his life. Well, the exact opposite happened because now we know that little gamers grew up to be big gamers, so he just gamed more when he was in college. And, uh, he dropped out. And that was crazy because he was a straight A student. We never had any of those kind of signs, you know, and I think back then, and I think today, even Hillary, I think that a lot of parents gauge their kids health based off of their grades. Mm-Hmm. and, right. And that's not a good litmus test. Uh, just, that's a little side tip, I'll throw out there. So we, I went to pick him up after that last day of his freshman year, and he looked like he was on drugs.

Melanie Hempe: (02:26)

I'm a nurse, so I did understand some of this. And I, and I just said, Adam, are you on drugs? And he said, “No, uh, World of Warcraft did something to my brain. I have been in bed for a week. I didn't finish my classes. I haven't been to eat.” He had not, I don't think he had had a shower. He didn't look like he had a shower. It was awful. So long story short, we finally realized, my husband, I finally realized, oh my gosh, this is what's been happening all these years, and we just never put it together. So I started traveling. I started meeting a lot of the physicians that I knew through Emory and just through different places that I had been interfacing with from my professional life. And I could not believe the research, even back then in 2012, um, the research that was coming out on screen addictions.

Melanie Hempe: (03:15)

So the gal at school who was the counselor said, “Melanie, why don't you come share some of this with some of our families?” And I made 20 handouts of a little handout that I put together, and I showed up and there were 125 people in the room. And I thought, oh my gosh, we are not the only ones struggling. So many people are struggling, but nobody was really talking about it at the time. So I started Screen Strong so we could get our momentum going. And sure enough, after almost a decade here, we have, uh, figured out how to help families that have this problem. We have figured out how to prevent and reverse video game and social media addiction. Uh, just really any screen addiction for kids. We focus only on kids. I, I don't focus on adults. There are plenty of other people that are helping them. So we are a educational organization, and I believe that if you really stick to the science, you get your answer, uh, pretty clearly. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (04:15)

I think that's what, I think that's one of the things that makes screen strong such a standout, is your medical background allows you to approach this in a very science-based manner. And I, um, I applaud you for entering this digital wellness pond , like it or not, in 2012, because honestly, when we founded in 2018, yeah. We often felt like the rest of the community was looking at us like we were the crazy ladies on the soapboxes on the corner, you know? And I mean, good night. That was six years after you. But it's so, it's so interesting to hear your path. It's very recognizable. And what we know now about, video games triggering dopamine, just do it. We know so much more, more.

Melanie Hempe: (05:34)

Well, let me tell you what happened after I went through all that with Adam with video games. That was right around the time when, you know, everybody's getting their smartphones. And so my daughter was in middle school. I was at a ball game one day. I asked one of the other parents there who had older girls, what do you do about the social media stuff? Right? Like, tell me about it. Your kids are in high school. How does this work? You know what she did? She reached in her pocket, she pulled out a card for a physician, and she said, oh, here's the doctor that we all use. Because when Melissa gets on social media, she's going to have to take anti-anxiety medication. So you might as well start her on it right now. So I thought, oh my gosh, this is the same thing.

Melanie Hempe: (06:10)

It is a screen addiction, whether it's a video game, whether it's a smartphone, it doesn't matter. It's a screen addiction. It triggers all the same things. And I decided at that point that my younger three kids, what would happen to these kids if they didn't have video games, and if they didn't have smartphones and social media, I wonder what would happen.

Melanie Hempe: (06:55)

I already know kind of what happened, you know, with the first one. And so that's what we did. We decided, you know what? We're not doing it. And it was from all of that boots on the ground and that, uh, really personal knowledge that I got walking through three more children, coming through a girl, and then two boys of what it's like in this day and age, raising children with a low tech lifestyle. And really what that means, because as you agree, we are not screen free. That is not what we are. It's like saying if you're allergic to peanuts, then you never eat food again in your life. That's not what we do. If you have an allergy to something, you just eliminate that thing that you have the allergy to. And so we decided we were gonna eliminate the most problematic screen use, which is video games, social media, which is the same thing as smartphones and pornography.

Melanie Hempe: (07:49)

So I focused on those three things. Those are the three things that we work on, on at Screen Strong. That's where all our research is. This is where we bring all our physicians together and we find ways to help parents who are burned. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (08:44)

What are some key things or like red flag type behaviors Yeah. That you, you recommend families look out for? I wanna focus more on the gaming aspect of things. Okay. I feel like social media's gotten a lot, a lot attention lately. Yeah. Which is so important.

Melanie Hempe: (09:19)

But let's talk about gaming. Yes. I'm, I'm an expert at raising a gamer, like a addicted gamer. So I can tell you how to do that. So the first thing that you see that you don't realize is that gaming is becoming the only thing that he likes to do. Like, he, he can't list two or three other things that he likes more than his game. And if that's the case, then you're in trouble right away. That's my first thing I tell people, if your child can't list two or three other healthy activities that he likes better than his video game, because video gaming is not a healthy activity. If he can't list at least two things, then you are in the danger zone. All right? This means that he is putting too much of his life into his game. The second thing is that his use is increasing over time. It used to be, oh, he play a little, you know, Candy Crush, or then it got into Minecraft, and then it kind of, now it's getting into Fortnite. Now he's starting to play every day. If he's starting to play more over time, what will happen is other activities start to fall off the grid, right? So he's, it's gradual. This gaming problem doesn't happen just immediately overnight. Um, but so you've got the meltdowns when they're forced to unplug. That's the other thing. They literally, I had a mom one time tell me she thought her, her 14-year-old son. She said, she called me, I think he's having a seizure on the kitchen floor because I took his Minecraft away. And, um, they really look like they're having seizures. Sometime they act like toddlers again. And this is that primal brain kicking in that limbic area. Kicking in because their frontal cortex has totally shut down. 'cause you know, after about 20 minutes, the frontal cortex shuts down. When you're gaming that limbic area lights up and you're in your fight/flight mode. And when we are fighting the bear, we don't worry about our homework.

Melanie Hempe: (11:26)

Our logical center gets shut down. So that's why your 14-year-old can act like he's literally having a seizure on the kitchen floor. The next thing is they start lying. They're sneaking around. This is what this classic of any addiction. In fact, all these things are very classic of any addiction. The meltdowns, increase used over time. The only thing that puts 'em in a good mood, they're sneaking around, they're using screen time, you know, for an escape, it becomes like a drug, right? So they're using it, uh, for an escape. I don't wanna do my homework, so I'm going to, I'm gonna play video games. I don't wanna deal with my parents' divorce, so I'm gonna deal with video games. You know, it's, it's an escape for that. And then the, the, the best thing that I could say, or not the best, I wouldn't say it's the best warning sign, but it's the most powerful warning sign, I think, is their detachment from your life, from your family life.

Melanie Hempe: (12:17)

And so we would get into situations with Adam, where, uh, “Adam, it's your sister's birthday. Why don't you come up and sing Happy Birthday to her?” Or “Adam, come to dinner!” or “Adam, how about coming upstairs and open Christmas presents? All these things. They would rather be on their game. You're constantly pulling 'em, you know, um, away from their game in order to do real life. So that is a huge warning sign. Don't let anyone tell you this is a natural thing that teenagers do. That is a myth. It is not grounded in science. It is not true. It's not grounded in brain science. Our kids, even when they're teenagers, they need us as much as they needed us when they were little. They still become independent. They have their own friends. But they need that family foundation. They need you as their parent to be their compass. You need to be really connected. They may act like they don't like you, and that's okay. That's part of their job. But once that is severed, once they don't feel like they're part of their family anymore, that's when the biggest, uh, damage is being done. But those are some of the warning signs.

I, I gotta also say one more. Sure. When they start putting their fist through the wall, because they're mad because their little brother came over and messed up their game, that's another warning sign. There's the violent outburst with gaining too.

Hillary Wilkinson: (13:29)

Okay. So I like how you kind of led us through the escalation of that. Um, when we talk to parents, some parents are telling us that, you know, my son is, uh, convinced he's going to, you know, become a professional gamer. Or we have all these eSports options at universities now. Mm-Hmm. . And what do you recommend - I keep referring to, um, particularly sons in re or our boys in response to gaming? I recognize that there are a huge number of girls on the gaming side as well. Mm-Hmm. . But it's my experience and I'm interested. 'cause I feel like you're a bigger, certainly a bigger expert on gaming than me. Do you see there's a gender divide?

Melanie Hempe: (14:21)

Oh, there absolutely is. There's no question. All the data supports that too. That generally, boys are gonna struggle more with gaming than girls. Girls still game, but they will trade their smartphone for their game most of the time. So girls are using social media differently than, than boys. So they become more addicted to their phone, and boys become more addicted to their game. That is across the board a very true statement, it fills that need for them to feel a purpose. The problem is, there's no purpose. Like Adam said, you can work on this thing for days and days. And he estimates that he probably spent 10 or 12,000 hours on his video gaming all through middle school and high school. And when you really think about what you could have done in the real world with that time, they feel very, uh, empty because they have nothing to show for their time. So for the gamers out there that think that they wanna be game designers one day, right? This

Hillary Wilkinson: (15:54)

Is what I tell, or to hit that professional, like, call it or hit the professional circuit. 

Melanie Hempe: (15:57)

So it's sort of like being a professional gambler. Um, gaming is very much like gambling. It triggers all the same things. It's the same process, sort of addiction. Um, it's like gambling. So you have to decide as a family, is this something we value? Do we value gambling? You know, in our family, we just don't value gambling. Some families do, uh, with, with our family, with gaming. Do we value this? No, we don't. We're not gonna let our kids do something that we don't value. Now, let me tell you about the child who says he's gonna be a game designer. So the thing is the companies that hire the, the best game designers are the kids who've actually had a real life.

Melanie Hempe: (16:43)

You know, you can't, you can't draw and write a game about something happening in a battle in nature, for example, if you've never been in nature, if you don't know how nature works. Gaming companies, they don't hire kids who are isolated spending ridiculous amounts of times on games. They want very balanced kids who have played a music instrument, who've taken art lessons, who know how to be on a team, who know how to work with people -if they lose their temper, they're out of there. They can't use 'em.  As far as eSports go. I'm very sad that they put the word sports with it. My, my daughter is a D1 college athlete. She worked very hard to achieve all of that skill. Um, it was a gymnastics, she just now is outta college. But she worked her whole middle school and high school for this for hours every day after school. She worked on her skill. Um, eSports, you know, it's like gambling. So, and that is what kids do. You know, they gamble on all the eSports. So that's not that, you know, one in a million, if that, I think you have a higher chance, actually, of being in the NFL than you do of making something of yourself with your, your video gaming.

Hillary Wilkinson: (18:34)

Okay. So next, let's talk about habits and setting an early foundation for success with screen management. But first we have to take a break.

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Hillary Wilkinson

I'm speaking with Melanie Hempe, a mom of four, and the founder of Screen Strong. So Melanie, when I was growing up, we were not allowed to watch tv. My mom, my mom said the shows had “no socially redeeming value” , and we only had one TV in the house, and it was in my parents' bedroom. Yeah. And so, fast forward to today, and I just, you know, feel like laying in bed and watching TV is the height of adult luxury, but . But, but I bring that up because I'm currently working on my own horrible screen habit that I'm struggling with of falling asleep with the TV on, which is, I know, it's awful. It's awful. You know, my husband's doing a lot of travel right now.

Hillary Wilkinson: (19:45)

And so It's like, I mean, there's, I I should be reading is what I should be doing. I know this, but I know. So, so, but I feel like I am experiencing a little bit of what I hear other people being concerned about, which is this response to, uh, to deprivation being binging, you know? And so when we limit gaming for our kids in the house growing up, does it stand a reason that when they leave the house or go away to college, that they're just gonna go hog wild and spend all of their time online? Or what are your, what are your thoughts about that?

Melanie Hempe: (20:25)

No, um, that absolutely will not happen. I have very clear thoughts on this, because I would say just the opposite. The more time they spend gaming now, the more they're going to spend even binge more when they're out of your house, because that's what they are comfortable doing. I have a podcast number 179 where one of my sons, the younger sons, gets up and answers this question with a number of other questions for a group of parents. And he said, 'cause I asked him, I said, “Andrew, you didn't grow up with video games, so are you gonna binge and go crazy in college?” And he thought about it and he said, “Well, the deal is, is, you know, I stink at video games , because I didn't grow up with them.” And the other part of the answer he said is, “I have so much, you know, that I love to do and I have a love for so many different hobbies that there's no way I'm, that's just lame.”

Melanie Hempe: (21:16)

Like, once you open that door and they start figuring out how to read and play musical instruments and how to gather groups together, and they're very social, and they, my younger two grew up without video games. They have so many more friends than Adam does. And he'll freely admit this to this day. Friendships are tough. You know, because when you didn't grow up making a lot of friends and having that be your social thing, um, because you're not being social online, by the way, with your video game friends, that's not being social. That's a whole nother discussion. It's sort of halfway. It's not genuine. It doesn't fill your tank. But when you are growing up without playing video games, when you go to college, that is the last thing you're gonna do because you're gonna be on the intramural team.

Melanie Hempe: (21:59)

You're gonna be hanging out with your buddies, you're gonna be riding your bike, you're gonna be doing all of the coffee houses. You're, you know, Andrew actually is still, um, doing all his music. Both of them are still doing all their music. Yeah. I was like, so, I was so shocked. 'cause I thought, surely they're gonna stop piano lessons. Guess what? They're in piano in college. I'm like, oh my gosh. They did that all on their own! And that's what you're doing as a parent when you are saying no to video games. No, for now. And I used to tell 'em all the time, yeah, you can go game when you're in college. I don't care. Even though, yeah, I would care. 'cause Adam dropped outta college for it. But my point is, what you do now is what you do later. This is a myth.

Melanie Hempe: (22:37)

The second thing I wanna say about this is when we fear the future, when we fear, okay, we can't do this now because they may do this later, that is not the right kind of parenting. We have to parent in the moment for what we know is the right thing right now, I'm not gonna parent them and say, huh, I'm gonna think maybe in 10 years they're gonna binge and do this. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna worry about what they may do when they leave my house. I'm gonna know right now what they need to be doing is learning life skills, people skills,  and every minute that they're on a video game is a minute out of that bucket. Plus the other thing Hillary, that parents don't understand is you are grooming an addict. It did. They're not playing Pac-Man anymore with video games. And we talk about video games. We're not talking about Pac-Man, and all the games that Mario Cart that we used to play, that is not what they're playing. They are playing games today that are so highly dopaminergic that their brains are being changed. Mm-Hmm. . And what happens with a kid who is used to that much dopamine for two hours a day, even, even if it's just two hours a day, that is going to change their brain. They will become addicted. It, they, that's the way it's designed. And I don't say that flippantly, right? They

Hillary Wilkinson: (24:02)

Right. No persuasive design.

Melanie Hempe: (24:04)

Develop a dependency. That is the whole point. And guess what, when that game isn't quite exciting enough, the next thing is pornography, and the next thing is pot. And that is how it goes. That is the flow. So by the time they get to college, not only are you gonna have a gamer who's binging on his game, he's got it because of tolerance. We know this about brain science and dopamine because of that tolerance factor. Now he is gotta have more dopamine. So guess what he's doing now in college? Not only is he gaming, but he's watching all kind of porn all day. Because this is, I won't say all day, maybe an hour a day, because now that's the next natural dopamine producing thing, and they're smoking pot. Now, you may not have any problems with that, but it's really common. I don't have any research on this.

Melanie Hempe: (24:49)

I will tell you, in my 10 years, this is the most common thing I see. One addiction leads to another. And I will also just say, because I know there's parents out there just saying, oh my gosh, this is insane. There's no way I can take his video game. Yes, you can. First of all, you can take his game away. You are the parent. You gotta quit treating your child like they're your best friend. You gotta do what needs to be done. And you gotta start with education. We've got to educate them. Right?

Hillary Wilkinson: (26:01)

For people who feel like, like, ah, like, you know, now we're falling down the rabbit hole. What, what can we do? We have a tool on our website called “What to Do When You're Feeling Meh”. Which sort of walks teens through pre-thinking what things they can do when they're feeling down rather than engage with a screen. Yeah. So it's kind of that what you're talking about is like building up those offline activities and things that are naturally dopamine producing. Right. Rather than this hyper hyperstimulation that occurs. And, um, so let's kind of jump from, we've been talking families, families, families. I'd just like to take a, a short, a short trip Mm-Hmm. Into more of a, a call to action of big tech companies. Hmm. And what, what role of responsibility do you think big tech holds towards our youth?

Melanie Hempe: (27:10)

That's a great question. I, I got this question early on with the gaming work I was doing. And a lot of people asked me, don't you just wanna go shut down all these gaming companies, for example? And, you know, the statistics on that, you know, gaming is bigger than Hollywood. It's bigger than any industry. We have billions of dollars. Like it's the hundreds of billions. Like, it's just an unbelievable amount. So we're not gonna shut them down. And I, I remember back then even saying, I don't, I'm not gonna spend my effort and my energy trying to shut down the gaming companies. Just like, I'm not gonna shut down big tobacco. I'm, my kids are just not gonna smoke. And I'm gonna spend my energy explaining to parents how and why that is the best way to go. And so that's why I feel about even the latest thing with big tech and the Senate hearings.

Melanie Hempe: (27:59)

You know, I love that they happened. I love that there are lawsuits that are trying to happen. I love all that because it just brings a lot of awareness. And I think for that reason alone, it's fabulous to have this discussion. I think let's get as many things in the news as we can. However, I do not think that it is the tech company's responsibility. And the reason why is because if we say that, then we have to start saying that a whole lot of other things, you know, should be mandated as well. And things like strip clubs, I don't believe in strip clubs. I don't think they're good. I don't want my kids going to 'em, so I just don't let 'em go to the strip club.

Melanie Hempe: (28:45)

But in every little town in this country, there is a strip club. So does it mean that we have to mandate the strip club and we make the strip club like if my kid comes into the strip club, then do they just tell all the pole dancers to go in the back room? . I mean, you know, I know that's kind of a crazy example, but it's not their responsibility. My responsibility is to keep my kid outta the strip club. I can't wait for a bouncer to do that. And the way I'm gonna keep my kid outta the strip club is I'm going to just have other things to do. I'm gonna build a good relationship with my kids. They're gonna look to me as their coach. I'm not gonna be their best friend parent. I'm gonna be the person in their life that has their moral compass set.

Melanie Hempe: (29:24)

And then we're just not gonna go to strip clubs as a family. Right. That, that's not what we're gonna endorse. And so that's just a little example. I'm sure it kind of has holes in it,

Hillary Wilkinson: (30:15)

Um, so I, I differ from you Yeah. In this, in that I do think big tech holds responsibility towards our youth. Yeah. And I, I am absolutely aligned with you in thinking that the family is 100% the first line of value building of setting, our core values and Sure. And boundaries. Um, that being said, I do believe that, uh, companies do need to be held in check for the responsibility of their, they, if they didn't, we wouldn't have organizations like say the FDA, we wouldn't have you know, organizations that, that protect public health.

Melanie Hempe: (31:09)

But like even the f fda, you know, you can still eat the bad food and all that, so it's 

Hillary Wilkinson: (31:16)

Right, but you're not,

Melanie Hempe: (31:16)

I agree with you. I wish there was no porn, for example, on the internet. I wish that would just be a thing because that's so many problems and whatever. But what all I'm saying is, let me just say, make this clear. I think everybody's responsible. I think everybody should be responsible, but I don't think anything that big tech can do, there's really, 'cause I know teenagers, there's just not a lot. Like if they do a age verification thing, that's they're just going to cheat and get around it. I mean, I, I I, I'm a little more cynical. I don't, I don't, I think those things are good because it raises awareness. But I don't think on the, um, in, in the weeds of being in a house with four teenagers, eh, I don't think they really work. I think that it's good and they should be there.

Melanie Hempe: (32:06)

But when I look at my client tell, and my, you know, all the families I deal with, and when I look at what's gonna really happen in that house, you can certainly, like with parental controls and whatnot, you absolutely need parental controls. Do we trust them? We absolutely do not trust parental controls. Right, right. But you still need them. So big tech. Yeah. They're kind of between a rock and a hard place. 'cause they have a product that's hurting a lot of people. And there should be some responsibility. I just, I'm a little more cynical over what can they do. Right? Um, because maybe you and I wouldn't be able to get around it , but our eighth grader will. So, um, right. That's my only little cynical thing.

Hillary Wilkinson: (32:49)

And I do think the super strength of the, uh, you know, millennial/Gen Zers coming into the workforce is they are digital natives. And they do approach problems different than those of us who grew up in analog life. did. Yeah. So, um, for example, when I spoke with Frances Haugen, who was the Facebook whistleblower earlier this year, she, she had mentioned just a very simple thing that could be put into place. We were speaking specifically about social media, and she was talking about if you could even set, um, like say you, you know, you wanna go to bed at 10 o'clock mm-Hmm. . And you set your controls to go to bed at 10 o'clock. Then she said maybe at nine o'clock your, uh, phone would automatically start slowing your social media feed. And she said, the rate at which you are hit with new images and new stimulation Mm-Hmm. Is absolutely what keeps you on and what keeps you engaged. Mm-Hmm. . And so she said, if you can just start slowing that down incrementally, incrementally, incrementally, I mean, think about how painful buffering is, for example. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . So I, I do think that there are tools beyond the scope of my imagination, , that exist out there.

Melanie Hempe: (34:13)

Yeah. There, there are, there are some things I think that they can falsely also lead parents into this lull of Oh, big tech's Got it. And have to

Hillary Wilkinson: (34:23)

Oh, absolutely.

Melanie Hempe: (34:24)

So that's where I push back a little bit. I think the conversation is that technology is awesome. There's so many great things. Uh, there are certain things though that need to be paused and pushed back so our kids can develop really better first Mm-Hmm. What I'm after and what I try to help parents understand is there's a way to do it where you can get the best out of technology, but still get the best out of the analog world while your kids are young, while their brain is being mapped for,

Hillary Wilkinson: (36:22)

Right. Getting the, the blueprints,

Melanie Hempe: (36:23)

Those connections. Yeah. So with Screen Strong, we're just all about more of a positive approach. Let's do all of these fun things that we can do. We're gonna hit the pause button on things that are gonna steal from that.

Melanie Hempe: (37:11)

And, and whether they're good or bad, a lot of them are, are bad actually , you know, with content and whatever. But even if it's all good content, we're still gonna hit the pause button on that. We're gonna dive into life you just have to be like a good coach. You have to be firm and strict, but you also have to be very loving. So if you just get the strict without the loving Yeah. That's probably gonna cause a problem.

Hillary Wilkinson: (38:03)

Yeah. Going back to that connection before correction, that's absolutely a good formula. Yeah. Yeah, when we come back, I'm gonna ask Melanie for her healthy screen habit.

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Hillary Wilkinson:

I'm talking with Melanie Hempe, founder of Screen Strong, a nonprofit that is founded on the belief of keeping the benefits of useful tech for kids, while empowering parents to remove the toxic tech. Melanie, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit. This is a tip or takeaway that our listeners can put into practice in their own home. What's yours?

Melanie Hempe: (39:01)

My tip is to skip the problematic screens in your house. And that includes video games and social media and smartphones all the way through adolescence. I know a lot of people say, just to pause through middle school and we say to pause through adolescence. That is my tip. That is our science-based tip that we say, give your kid the best advantage while they're young and while they're in that sensitive time of development for their mental health to be developed without the scars of screen addiction. So we say, just to skip that, and I believe that every family can benefit from this. No parent has ever looked back and said, “Gee, I wish my child had spent more time on video games and smartphone.” So just take the challenge. We have a seven day challenge that's connected to our student course. And then we also have a 30 day challenge. And we tell you how to do this. We can tell you how exactly to eliminate the problematic screens in your house. And this tip might just, uh, save your life. You never know.

Hillary Wilkinson: (40:20)

Excellent. As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show and a link to Screen Strong as well as that Kids Brains and Screens, uh, curriculum that Melanie is speaking of by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button and scroll down to find this episode. 

So Melanie, thank you so much for being here and for sharing both your personal journey with tech and your family and your passion for helping all families.

Melanie Hempe: (40:54)

Hillary, thank you so much for everything that you're doing, um, just to spread this message with the more voices the better. Thank you.